Archaeologists Announce Discovery Of Underwater Man-Made Wall (Very Old)

China Post ^ | 11-26-2002

[blam]

Archaeologists announce discovery of underwater man-made wall

2002/11/26
The China Post staff

Underwater archaeologists yesterday announced the discovery of a man-made wall submerged under the waters of the Pescadores Islands that could be at least six and seven thousand years old.

Steve Shieh, the head of the planning committee for the Taiwan Underwater Archaeology Institute, said the wall was discovered to the northwest of Tong-chi Island in the Pescadores towards the end of September.

The stone wall, with an average height of one meter and a width of 50 centimeters, covers a distance of over 100 meters, Hsieh said.

The wall ran along the ocean floor at depths of between 25 and 30 meters, he added.

Shieh said that divers found several places along the wall where holes were apparently filled up with pebbles, possibly in an attempt to block winds.(Maybe to keep out the rising water?)

The wall was located by a team of divers working in cooperation with the National Museum of History and the Department of Environmental Sciences at the National Sun Yat-sen University.

In August, researchers scanning waters in the area with sonar discovered what appeared to be the remnants of four to five man-made walls running along the bottom of the sea.

Please see WALL on page(I could not find a map, if you can, please post it.)

Despite difficult diving conditions, Shieh said that a team of more than ten specialists was able to ascertain the positions of at least three of the wall sections.

The proximity of the wall to a similar structure found in 1976 suggests that it may be further evidence of a pre-historical civilization.

A three meter high underwater wall was discovered by amateur divers in waters off the nearby Hu-ching (Tiger Well) Island.

British archaeologists examined the find and proclaimed that the wall was probably made between 7,000 and 12,000 years ago.

The current find stands a mere 100 meters from the site of that discovery.

Six years ago, evidence of a sunken city in the area was found when amateur divers found the remains of what appear to be city walls taking the shape of a cross on the ocean floor.

Further examination suggested the ruins were made between seven and ten thousand years ago as well, although Japanese researchers put the walls construction at between 10,000 and 80,000 years ago.

Taken together, the discoveries have helped to overturn the established notion that Taiwan's earliest aboriginal inhabitants made their way here from mainland China some 6,000 years ago.(There goes the giant hynea theory, huh?)

The underwater finds are part of a growing body of evidence suggesting the existence of civilizations older than anything previously imagined.(suprise, suprise, suprise--Gomer Pyle voice)

On this theory, entire cities ended up underwater after sea levels rose towards the end of the last Ice Age, a date cited by Plato as being some 9,600 years ago.

One of the most dramatic examples of evidence of civilizations found on ocean beds has been megalithic structures off the coast of Yonaguni-jima in Japan that have been interpreted in some circles as being built for sacrificial rites. According to Shieh, a similar structure has been located off of the shores of Taiwan's Pingtung County .

Shieh said that he and his association have plans to explore that location as well as what appears to be a man-made path on the ocean floor off of Taitung County sometime next year.

[#3Fan]

Shame you couldn't have been in Germany in 1939. You might could have convinced Hitler that Germany had better farmland (and more oil) than Russia and prevented WW-II and all that bloodshed.

So what you're saying is that there was never any reason to migrate west, therefore no western migration took place by anyone?

[#3Fan]

The big problem with the soviet system was not as obvious as many think. Basically, there was no responsibility in the system. Under our own system, there are small and large farms, companies which make tractors and equipment, chains of grocery stores, trucking companies and private truckers, grain elevators, futures markets to regulate prices, and at every step of theway, at each link in the chain, there is somebody who will lose money if anything goes more than the littlest bit wrong. Under the commie system there was nothing like that. Nobody ever had anything to lose by screwing up and when anything went wrong, somebody filled out a form and sent it up to the top where it was filed. Private garden plots were 2% of the arable land and were producing half the food which people actually ate.

So what you're saying is that no western migrations ever took place regardless of who it was because the land was so good?

[#3Fan]

It's really hard to picture any western migration motivated by the desire for better farmland, which is what was being claimed a page or so back.

So what's you're theory as to why there was a western migration? Or is it your theory that no western migration took place?

[Sabertooth]

Do you think there was any migration from the East to the West regardless of who the people where?

At different times, diferent people have migrated North, South, East, and West.

[#3Fan]

At different times, diferent people have migrated North, South, East, and West.

Do you think there was a long migration of people from the Ukraine - Latvia area to western Europe regardless of who they were?

[VadeRetro]

So what you're saying is that there was never any reason to migrate west, therefore no western migration took place by anyone?

So what you're saying is that if Brezhev couldn't completely and fully feed 350 million people or so from the Ukrainian soil in the 1970s, that means that the farm-loving Assyrians sneaking out the back door of history would have turned west above the Black Sea to escape the Ukrainian desert. They of course coveted the lush plains of Germany, which Caesar unaccountably describes as dense, dark forest peopled by tribes who never cared a thing for the plow.

[VadeRetro]

You say "esh" and "ash" isn't really a match and is just a coincidence like I predicted you would.

You are comparing fire and ash, not fire and fire.

[#3Fan]

Here's another report someone sent me in e-mail that compares more relic Hebrew words in the Welsh language from http://www.geocities.com/hiberi/language.html

THE ISRAELITE AND NORTH AFRICAN LINKS OF THE INSULAR CELTS IN THE LIGHT OF LINGUISTICS.
The Question of Alphabetical Lettering.
Extract from "Lost Israelite Identity" Chapter Seventeen - by Yair Davidiy

---

The Irish legends are compatible with Israelite origins. They presuppose having originally come from the Middle East AND often speak of arriving in Spain via North Africa. A Moroccan Jewish legend says that when the Ten tribes were exiled part of the tribe of Ephraim reached Morocco. They ruled over the land until the time of Ezra (ca.457-445 b.c.e.) at which period their rule was lost. In many respects North Africa and Spain in early times were often effectually one entity. The Irish, Scottish, and Welsh, and many of the ancient Britons and Gauls, spoke forms of Celtic. Celtic is considered an Indo-European tongue related to Latin. The Celts apparently received the Indo-European aspects of their language and culture from peoples they had conquered on the Continent before continuing their westward trek. Linguistic examinations of the speech of the Welsh and Irish reveal a form of Celtic in which there is an underlying speech element similar to that found in North Africa. North African languages are classified as "Hamitic". Egyptian and Berber are Hamitic tongues. They have an affinity with Semitic languages and local dialects in various parts of the Middle East occasionally exhibit Hamitic features. Aspects of Hamitic speech are also found in Biblical Hebrew but they are not emphasised. Most of the ancient Canaanite peoples adopted a language similar to Hebrew though both Indo-European and Hamitic languages must also have been known to them . The Phoenician use of Hebrew has characteristics of a foreign tongue adopted by them. There also exist Arabic dialects which are Hamitic or reveal a Hamitic substratum. Not only that but the impression is that much of the difference between Hamitic and Semitic is more one of emphasis than of substance. Dialects of Hebrew within the Land of Israel could well have absorbed Hamitic elements. Insular British Celtic tongues, especially colloquial Welsh, says W.H.Worrell, show certain peculiarities which are reminiscent of Hamitic and Semitic tongues and are unparalleled in Aryan languages. Similarly, according to H.Wagner: "Irish.....has as many features in common with non-Indo-European languages, especially with Hamito-Semitic languages, as with other Indo-European languages". "Insular Celtic languages.. the grammatical categories having many affinities with non-Indo-European languages, in particular Basque and Berber". "The comparative typology of insular Celtic initiated by Morris Jones and further developed by Pokorny, G.B.Adams, and myself has revealed that most of the many peculiar features of insular Celtic rarely traceable in other Indo-European languages have analogies in Basque, Berber, Egyptian, Semitic, and even in Negro languages". "Certain features [(of marginal influence only)] of Old Irish verb forms can be understood only in the light of Hittite, Vedic, Sanskrit, and Mycenean Greek". J.Morris Jones said that, "The pre-Aryan idioms which still live in Welsh and Irish were derived from a language allied to Egyptian tongues".
The above linguistic remarks show that Insular Celtic (i.e. of Britain and Ireland as distinct from the Continental forms which were somewhat different) is consistent with the claims proposed herein: i.e. The original tongue of the Insular Celts was Semitic (Hebrew) which marginally was influenced by Mycenean Greek, Hittite, Indo-European (Sanskrit), Syrian, Mitanni, and what not. Heavy Hamitic influences may be attributable to those of some of the neighbouring peoples, such as the Canaanites, and Egyptians, and to having sojourned in a North African environment. In addition, the natives of Spain amongst whom the Insular Celts or a good portion of them once dwelt, traded with, and fought against, were also at least in part of North African Berber related Hamitic origin. This explanation may sound involved and complicated but it accords with the evidence when archaeological, anthropological, mythological, and linguistic findings are compared with each other. At all events the natives of Ireland and Wales must have used a Hamitic and/or Semitic tongue(s) before they came into contact with Continental Indo-European ones.

HEBREW IN WELSH???

It was seen above that Irish and colloquial Welsh definitely have some type of underlying linguistic base that must only derive from Middle Eastern (Semitic) and/or North African Hamitic sources. This conclusion was derived from the quoted opinions of linguistic scientists still active in their field today. It so happens that in the past there were others who held similar opinions but went further than their present-day continuers care to. They expressly related Celtic tongues to Hebrew!!! A writer who signed his name "Glas" submitted a list of Welsh words with Hebrew origins in 1832 . The writer remarked that, "But the best proof of the Eastern descent of the ancient British is the close resemblance and connection existing between the Welsh and Hebrew languages, even at this day. As a proof of this we have extracted the following vocabulary of words in both tongues, so closely resembling each other in sound and sense as to leave no doubt whatever on the subject. Many of these words, it will be found, have been transmitted from the Welsh, through the Anglo-Saxon into our modern English. It would be easy to swell their number..

Some of the examples adduced by the above writer were:

Aeth: He went, he is gone; hence = Athah
Aml: Plentiful, ample = Hamale ((äîìà
Ydom: the earth = Adamah
Awye: air, sky = auor, or
bu: it came to pass = bo boten, or potten : belly = beten.
brith: bright = barud
cas: hatred = caas (anger).
dafnu: to drop, or distill by drops = nataph, taph.

In 1675 Charles Edwards ("Hanes y Fydd") published A number of Welsh Cambro-Brittanic Hebraisms in which he shows that whole phrases in Welsh can be closely paralleled by whole phrases in Hebrew.

From the list of Charles Edwards, L.G.A. Roberts (1919) made a selection and we have selected examples from Roberts after slightly modernising the Hebrew transliterations : It should be noted that when account is taken for likely and known dialectical changes of pronounciation the examples given in effect show identical Welsh parallel phrases for the Hebrew original.

In Welsh: Gael hedd (Gen.31;47) meaning Geledd i.e. heap of testimony= in Hebrew (âìòã) : Galaed.

In Welsh: Bagad meaning "A troop cometh ?" (Gen.30;11) = in Hebrew (áâãBagad)

In Welsh : Anudon meaning "Without God" = in Hebrew (àéï àãåï) : Aen Adon.

In Welsh : Yni all sy dda meaning "I am the Almighty God" (Gen. 17;1) = in Hebrew: ((àðé àì ùãé : Ani El Saddai.

In Welsh : Llai iachu yngwyddd achau ni meaning "Let him not live before our brethren" (Gen. 31;32) = in Hebrew ( ìà éçéä ðâã àçéðå ) Loa yichei neged acheinu (Gen.31;32).

In Welsh Ochoren ballodddi hoc-dena meaning "After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure?" = in Hebrew : (àçøé áìúé äéúä ìé òãðä ) Acharei belothi hedenah (Gen.18;12).

In Welsh Bebroch fra am beneu ach ef, dyfet Deborah mam ianceth Ribecah meaning "When he fled from the face of his brother . But Deborah Rebecca's nurse died" (Gen. 35;7-8) = in Hebrew : (ááøçå îôðé àçéå åúîú ãáøä îéð÷ú øá÷ä) Beborcho mpnei achiv vetamath Deborah mayneceth Ribecah.

In Welsh: Yngan Job yscoli yscoli cynghaws i (Job 6;1,2) meaning "Job answered, O that my grief were thoroughly weighed" = in Hebrew: (åéòï àéåá...ù÷åì éù÷ì ëòùé) Veya(g)n Eyub ....shocol yishocal ca(g)si

In Welsh: Amelhau bytheu chwi a bythau holl ufyddau chwi meaning "And they shall fill your house and the houses of all your servants" (Gen. 10;6) = in Hebrew (åîìàå áúéê åáúé ëì òáãéê) : Umalu bathechoh and bathei col avedochoh.

In Welsh Iachadd ni meaning "Thou hast healed me" = in Hebrew ( (äçéúðé : hechiyatni.

In Welsh Nesa awyr peneu chwi meaning "Lif thou up the light of thy countenance" = in Hebrew (ðñä àåø ôðéê) : nasa aor panechoh.(Psalms 4;6.).

In Welsh An annos meaning "None did compel" = in Hebrew ((àéï àðñ : ain ones. (Esther 1;8).

In Welsh As chwimwth meaning "an angry man" = in Hebrew (àéù çîñ) : ish chamas (Psalms 140;12 Proverbs 16;29 meaning a wickedly-violent man).

In Welsh Be heulo, luerferfo (Job 6;4) meaning "When his candle shined ....and by his light.." = in Hebrew (áäéìå ..ìàåøå) : behilo, leoroe.

In Welsh Bwgythieu in gwarchaeni (Job 6;4) meaning "The terrors of God set themselves in array against me = in Hebrew (áòåúé àìåä éòøëåðé) : Biu(g)thi elohai ya-a(g)rchuni.

In Welsh I far meaning "Shall be cursed" = Hebrew (éåàø) : Yu-ar, yuv-ar. (Numbers 22;6).

In Welsh Am geryddo fo meaning "At his reproof" = in Hebrew (òí âòøúå) : im ge-arato.

Godfrey Hughes "The Celtic Druids" (1829) quotes from a certain Welsh Translation of the Bible in which similar examples as the above are apparent:

In Welsh By-lllwng Adon-ydb holl neuodh Jago meaning "The Lord has swallowed up all the tabernacles of Jacob" (Lamentations 2;2) = Hebrew (áìò àãðé......àú ëì ðàåú éò÷á) : Balla(ng) Adoni eth col neoth Yacob.

In Welsh Dyrac buth-hi ai-i-sengyd meaning "The avenue of her dwelling he would go to tread" (Proverbs 7;8) = Hebrew (ãøê áéúä éöòã) : Derech baithah yitsa(ng)d.

In Welsh Py yw-o sy maeloc y-cavad I-a-ywoo savwyod yw-o maeloc y-cavad, Selah meaning "Who is the king of glory [attainment]? The LORD of hosts , he is the king of glory. Selah" (Psalms 24;10) = Hebrew (îé äåà æä îìê äëáåã ä~ öáàåú äåà îìê äëáåã ñìä) Mi hu zeh melec hacavod Y....Tsavaoth
hu melec hacavod selah.

The affinity between Hebrew and Welsh was mentioned by a certain Dr.
Davies (amongst others) and in the preface to his Welsh Grammar there was
a poem to the effect that:

He gladly deigns his countrymen to teach, By well-weighòd rules, the rudiments of speech; That when the roots first of our own we gain, The Hebrew tongue we thence may soon attain .

The Rev. Eliezer Williams (b.1754) wrote several works on the Celts and made several remarks (quoted by Roberts p.23):

"In the Hebrew...which the ancient British language greatly resembles... "The roots of most of the ancient British, or real Welsh, words may be regularly traced in the Hebrew.. "Scarcely a Hebrew root can be discovered that has not its corresponding derivative in the ancient British language...But not only..the words...their variations and inflections afford a much stronger proof of affinity...The plural number of nouns likewise is often formed in a similar manner in the Celtic by adding in (a contraction of éí: i.e.-IM which is the suffix used in Hebrew to form the masculine plural)...in the formation of sentences, and in the government of words...the same syntax might serve for both.....

Davies in "Mythology of the Ancient Druids" (p.94) asserts that "Taleisin, the chief Bard, declares that his lore had been detailed in Hebraic..."

It follows from all the above that though the language of the British Celts may have superficially conformed to an Indo-European type it had enough Semitic and Hebraic features to confirm the notion that Hebrew had been their original tongue. This explanation fits best of all the facts in our possession taken from all disciplines concerned with the subject.

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[#3Fan]

You've had people migrating into Europe at different times for different reasons, the search for better farmland in all likelihood not being one of them. The problem is that the particular migration you are claiming happened amounts to too many highly improbable things having to happen together to be believable.

So you don't believe in the western migrations regardless og who they were?

The idea of israelites being taken captive by the assyrians, exiled to the Russian steppe, taken captive again...

Again? Where have I said there were two captivities?

...by indoeuropean people and forcibly converted to using indoeuropean languages rather than hebrew or assyrian, and THEN breaking out of bondage a second time and, having retained their racial and ethnic cohesion through all of that march off to England, Ireland, and Scotland and conquer that whole territory, just isn't believable.

Then don't believe it. LOL

[#3Fan]

So what you're saying is that if Brezhev couldn't completely and fully feed 350 million people or so from the Ukrainian soil in the 1970s, that means that the farm-loving Assyrians sneaking out the back door of history would have turned west above the Black Sea to escape the Ukrainian desert. They of course coveted the lush plains of Germany, which Caesar unaccountably describes as dense, dark forest peopled by tribes who never cared a thing for the plow.

So you see no reason for any western migrationns regardless of who they were?

[#3Fan]

You are comparing fire and ash, not fire and fire.

Oh, yeah, there's no way they could be related. /sarcasm

[#3Fan]

The two basic and universal indoeuropean words for fire and flames are agni/igneous/ignite/ignition/ogon etc., and flame/flamme/plamiya. What is there in any semitic language which matches one of these?

Yeah, there's no way esh and ash could be related even though they both mean the same thing. /sarcasm

[VadeRetro]

So you see no reason for any western migrationns regardless of who they were?

A number of western migrations are recorded: Goths, Vandals, Huns, Lombards, Avars, Magyars, Turks, and Mongols to name a few. It is not necessary and rather silly to make a desert of a very fertile area to have people migrating across it. It is enough if those crossing are more interested in plunder than farming. It has amused me watching you be an idiot for page after page on this non-crucial point, even turning a blind eye to the shortcomings of communist economics as a basis for staying fed.

What I would think you'd want to deal with is the lack of Hebrews and Assyrians in the historical list.

[VadeRetro]

"Esh" looks like "ash," but "esh" is "fire." Furthermore, your author tries to pretend that UG-uns looks as much like "esh" as it does like "ogon'" (Russian) or "ignis" (Latin) or "agni" (Sanskrit).

These deceptions and reliance upon misleading 200/300-year-old sources are the tapdance of those whose case has already been discredited.

[#3Fan]

A number of western migrations are recorded: Goths, Vandals, Huns, Lombards, Avars, Magyars, Turks, and Mongols to name a few.

Where are these Turks and Mongols now, they turned around and went back east?

It is not necessary and rather silly to make a desert of a very fertile area to have people migrating across it.

So you don't see any reason that a western migration could take place? What motivated the Goths and Vandals to move migrate west? You say it wasn't for more attractive land, then what was it?

It is enough if those crossing are more interested in plunder than farming.

So it's likely that Goths and Vandals would've been interested in plunder and but Pliny's Assyrian city-state would've not been interested in plunder and would've stayed right these at the north of the Black Sea? The Assyrians that lived north of the Black Sea had some kind of pacifying experience as they crossed the Caucasus?

It has amused me watching you be an idiot for page after page on this non-crucial point, even turning a blind eye to the shortcomings of communist economics as a basis for staying fed.

Getting testy again, I see. It's a point that relates to Pliny's Assyrian city-state and your claims about them. You say that while the Goths and Vandals would've left fertile lands to plunder west, Pliny's Assyrians suddenly would not have been interested in plundering along with the Goths and Vandals and would've been happy staying right where they were. Why was fertile land enough to keep the Assyrians where they were, but not enough to keep the Goths and Vandals where they were? Is there something about the character of the Goths, Vandals, and Assyrians that make you believe this? What is it about the Goth and Vandal makeup that makes them more apt to plunder?

What I would think you'd want to deal with is the lack of Hebrews and Assyrians in the historical list.

What list?