A Discovery That's Just Too Perfect [James brother of Jesus Ossuary is a hoax-my title]

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-eisenman29oct29.story?null ^ | October 29, 2002 | Robert Eisenman

[Polycarp]

COMMENTARY

A Discovery That's Just Too Perfect

Claims that stone box held remains of Jesus' brother may be suspect.

By Robert Eisenman Robert Eisenman is the author of "James the Brother of Jesus" (Penguin, 1998) and a professor of Middle East religions and archeology at Cal State Long Beach.

October 29 2002

James, the brother of Jesus, was so well known and important as a Jerusalem religious leader, according to 1st century sources, that taking the brother relationship seriously was perhaps the best confirmation that there ever was a historical Jesus. Put another way, it was not whether Jesus had a brother, but rather whether the brother had a "Jesus."

Now we are suddenly presented with this very "proof": the discovery, allegedly near Jerusalem, of an ossuary inscribed in the Aramaic language used at that time, with "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus." An ossuary is a stone box in which bones previously laid out in rock-cut tombs, such as those in the Gospels, were placed after they were retrieved by relatives or followers.

[berned]

You should ask polycarp that. I don't believe they are infallible.

[BlackVeil]

I think a Muslim hoax is unlikely. Islamic doctrine teaches the perpetual virginity of Mary, she was "ever virgin".

Not that Islamic hoaxs, and contrived additions are altogether impossible. There is a document called the "Gospel of Barnabas", and scholars say that this is a medieval forgery, which either drew on Muslim sources or was the work of Muslims who wanted to create a pseudo-Christian narrative (Whatever for? But then, one could ask that of any fabrication.) IMO, there are also Islamic elements to some of the heresies and secret societies which came back to Europe after the Crusades. One example, is that the Templars allegedly denied that Jesus died on the cross. If (big if) they did indeed secretly teach this, they would have picked up the idea from the Qu'ran.

Muslims are aware of the divisions within Christianity - they could hardly not be, as one of the first things which Christian missionaries do when entering a Middle Eastern country is to traduce the existing Churches as non-Biblical. They don't need to do anything to foster these divisions, the Christians do it all for themselves.

[Delbert]

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/...I read about that yesterday. Theres some interestings things here.

[RedWhiteBlue]

Some "brothers" may be Jesus' half-brothers through Joseph.

Not possible. Since Jesus was the son of God and Mary, the only way he could have half-brothers would be for God to have sons with another woman or for Mary to have other children with an earthly man. Sons of Joseph would be step brothers at best -- actually not true brothers at all -- no half or full relation.

[Desdemona]

What translation are you using because that's not what mine says.

You're not going to get me to deny Mary's perpetual virginity, so don't even try.

[Polycarp]

But all these assessments are based on two suppositions: that the box is not a forged item and that the James, Joseph and Jesus inscribed on it are the ones in the Bible. Neither is a foregone conclusion. The history of the ossuary is murky. It was probably looted from a burial cave decades ago. The Biblical Archaeology article includes testimony by geologists and experts in ancient writing with sufficient credibility to convince scholars that the box is not a fake and probably does date to within four decades of A.D. 62, the accepted year for James' martyrdom at the temple. Many academics, however, have expressed reservations about Lemaire's claim to somehow be able to eliminate virtually all the other Jameses roaming Jerusalem during that period. Thus what might otherwise have been a kind of archaeological/religious coronation turns into something slightly different: a scientific detective story with extremely high religious stakes....

...SOME SEMBLANCE OF CAUTION" by this point, however, many other scholars had parted ways with Lemaire. P. Kyle McCarter, chair of the Near Eastern studies department at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Md., notes that the log of inscription names from which the Sorbonne professor derives his percentages may not actually reflect their frequency in Jerusalem as a whole, contaminating his calculations. He comments, "It wouldn't be my inclination to quantify it in that way." (Meanwhile, Camil Fuchs, head of Tel Aviv University's statistics department, running numbers from the article, claims that Lemaire overestimated the final tally. Fuchs claims that there would have been only five possible Jameses.) Rather than focusing on the numbers, McCarter and other specialists with whom TIME talked seemed obsessed with two facts. All were horrified that the artifact had been ripped out of context, partly because looting is immoral but, more important, because, as McCarter says, it "compromises everything. We don't know where [the box] came from, so there will always be nagging doubts. Extraordinary finds need extraordinary evidence to support them."

[MEGoody]

"whoever tried chiseling in "brother of jesus" sure wasn't a hindu..."

Ah,okay - thought you were refering to the archeologist or something. At this point, we do not know this is a hoax. It is presumed that this particular point lends weight to that opinion. But frankly, it could have been scratched in by a believer in Christ with personal knowledge of the life and death of James. Right now, there is only conjecture.

[Mr. Lucky]

Joseph was forbidden at all times due to Jewish law...

Whether he was or wasn't is not addressed by Mark; that's my point.

[Sabertooth]

You should ask polycarp that. I don't believe they are infallible.

You appear to be saying two things: that the Catholic Church holds that it is infallible, and that this ossuary (if genuine, I'm withholding opinion) diproves this alleged claim of infallibility.

Where does the Catholic Church hold that it is infallible?

[MEGoody]

"She will always be His mother...Jesus gave her to us as Our Mother at the foot of the cross..."

You are certainly free to believe that, but Jesus on the cross was no longer a babe in arms. He was fulfilling His Messiahship. He did not give her as mother to all of us. He gave her to John to take care of. That seems clear to me because scripture states from that time on she was with him. Mary is not my mother - she is my sister in Christ.

[Polycarp]

See posts 5, 131, and 206 for other critiques. Eisenman certainly is not alone in his criticism.

[MEGoody]

"One's mother is one's mother, period."

You are free to believe that, however, I don't see scripture supporting any kind of parent/child relationships in heaven except between us and God.

[Polycarp]

I will NOT let you off the hook till you respond.

You have no ability to put me on a hook.

This is a news forum thread discussing the fact part of the writing on this ossuary is a hoax.

Go discuss YOPIOS on the religion forum.

Refute post 131, which is relevant to this thread.

[Polycarp]

Good, salient points. Thank you.

[berned]

THIRD time asking Polycarp a simple question which he has thus far refused to answer:

Is it your assertion or belief, which you seem to indicate that it was, that the BROTHERS mentioned in Mark 6:3 are the SONS of ALPHAEUS?

That seems to be what you are saying. Do I have that correct? Campion is now on record saying that he believes James AND JOSES were the sons of ALPHAEUS.

What say you polycarp?

[Irisshlass]

Matthew does not say that...when the angel appeared to Joseph he said to take her as his wife...not "to go into"...

Genesis 30
3 She said, "(1) Here is my maid Bilhah, go in to her that she may (2) bear on my knees, that (3) through her I too may have children."
4 So (4) she gave him her maid Bilhah as a wife, and Jacob went in to her.
16 When Jacob came in from the field in the evening, then Leah went out to meet him and said, "You must come in to me, for I have surely hired you with my son's mandrakes." So he lay with her that night.

Genesis 16
2 So Sarai said to Abram, "Now behold, the LORD has prevented me from bearing children. (1) Please go in to my maid; perhaps I will obtain children through her." And Abram listened to the voice of Sarai.

Genesis 16
3 After Abram had lived (1) ten years in the land of Canaan, Abram's wife Sarai took Hagar the Egyptian, her maid, and gave her to her husband Abram as his wife.
4 He went in to Hagar, and she conceived; and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her sight

Joseph who already betrothed to Mary...legally married...had to put her death for adultery, condemn her put her away...but the angel spoke to him and said do not fear..take her as your wife...the angel did not say to go into..He also knew from His dream God was Mary's husband...adultery carried a sense of defilement...if a woman had known contact with another man she was no longer fit to be visited by her husband...In Jeremiah 3
1 God says, "(1) If a husband divorces his wife
And she goes from him
And belongs to another man,
Will he still return to her?
Will not that land be completely polluted?
But you (2) are a harlot with many lovers;"

Joseph was forbiden all time...

[berned]

But other verses (which I have already cited for you elsewhere) do tell us that James and Joses were the sons of Alphaeus and another woman named "Mary," later identified as the "sister" of the BVM.

Okay, now we are finally getting somewhere. Please post the verse where you think it says that James AND JOSES were the sons of ALPHAEUS. Thank you!!!

[MissAmericanPie]

It makes it interesting that who this particular James's brother was, was important enough to inscribe on the ossuary. I could see the inscription reading, James son of Joseph and ....., but to list his brother would indicate the brother has some importance.

[Polycarp]

That seems to be what you are saying. Do I have that correct?

I have said nothing regarding this point. I simply ignored you.

What say you polycarp?

This thread is about the relative authenticity of the ossuary. Refute post 131. Thanks.

I will not answer any further theological questions on this thread from you. Don't bother asking, and don't bother trying to put words in my mouth.

Refute post 131.

[Desdemona]

I could see the inscription reading, James son of Joseph and ....., but to list his brother would indicate the brother has some importance.

And to fake the inscription would be a hoax. Keep reading the thread. Antiquities script experts believe the inscription was faked.