Posted on 10/24/2002 1:32:37 PM PDT by vannrox
Scientist Says Ostrich Study Confirms Bird "Hands" Unlike Those Of Dinosaurs CHAPEL HILL -- To make an omelet, you need to break some eggs. Not nearly so well known is that breaking eggs also can lead to new information about the evolution of birds and dinosaurs, a topic of hot debate among leading biologists. Drs. Alan Feduccia and Julie Nowicki of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill have done just that. They opened a series of live ostrich eggs at various stages of development and found what they believe is proof that birds could not have descended from dinosaurs. They also discovered the first concrete evidence of a thumb in birds. A report on their investigations will appear online in the August issue of Naturwissenschaften, the top German biology journal, and soon afterwards in the print edition. "There are insurmountable problems with that theory," he said. "Beyond what we have just reported, there is the time problem in that superficially bird-like dinosaurs occurred some 25 million to 80 million years after the earliest known bird, which is 150 million years old." Editor's Note: The original news release can be found at http://www.unc.edu/ news/newsserv/research/feduccia081402.htm
Note: This story has been adapted from a news release issued by University Of North Carolina At Chapel Hill for journalists and other members of the public. If you wish to quote from any part of this story, please credit University Of North Carolina At Chapel Hill as the original source. You may also wish to include the following link in any citation:
"Whatever the ancestor of birds was, it must have had five fingers, not the three-fingered hand of theropod dinosaurs," Feduccia said. "Scientists agree that dinosaurs developed 'hands' with digits one, two and three -- which are the same as the thumb, index and middle fingers of humans -- because digits four and five remain as vestiges or tiny bumps on early dinosaur skeletons. Apparently many dinosaurs developed very specialized, almost unique 'hands' for grasping and raking. "Our studies of ostrich embryos, however, showed conclusively that in birds, only digits two, three and four, which correspond to the human index, middle and ring fingers, develop, and we have pictures to prove it," said Feduccia, professor and former chair of biology at UNC. "This creates a new problem for those who insist that dinosaurs were ancestors of modern birds. How can a bird hand, for example, with digits two, three and four evolve from a dinosaur hand that has only digits one, two and three? That would be almost impossible."
The new work involved microscopic examination of early skeletal development in ostrich embryos, he said. Nowicki, who received her doctorate in biology at UNC last year, and he found the critical period for major features of the skeletons of primitive birds like ostriches to appear occurred between days 8 and 15 of those birds' 42-day growth inside eggs.
The beginnings of arm bones and "fingers" begin to appear around day 8, Feduccia said. Those that would grow into the animals' thumbs, however, appear around day 14 and later disappear by about day 17.
"Because most such studies in birds have relied on embryos in the second half of development, usually at or near hatching, these studies have therefore used embryos that exhibit the form of fully developed chicks and have generated misleading results," he said. "Questions about development of bird hands were first addressed in 1821 by the famous German physician and anatomist Johann Friedrich Meckel for whom the cartilage of the lower jaw was named. But no one has produced convincing evidence for a thumb before. For us, this is very exciting."
The UNC evolutionary biologist has been a strong critic of the belief that dinosaurs gave rise to birds as some paleontologists have claimed since the 1970s. He also has been a major figure in the debate for 30 years.
Most of the bird-like dinosaurs were "looking at the meteor some 65 million years ago," he said, a reference to the giant meteor believed to have struck the Earth then and killed off all dinosaurs within a short time.
If one views a chicken skeleton and a dinosaur skeleton through binoculars they appear similar, but close and detailed examination reveals many differences, Feduccia said. Theropod dinosaurs, for example, had curved, serrated teeth, but the earliest birds had straight, unserrated peg-like teeth. They also had a different method of tooth implantation and replacement.
Findings from careful examinations of alligator and turtle embryos were consistent with those of birds, the scientist added.
Far more likely is that birds and dinosaurs had a much older common ancestor, he said. Many superficial similarities between birds and dinosaurs arose because both groups developed body designs for walking upright on two hind legs and began to resemble each other over millions of years. "It is now clear that the origin of birds is a much more complicated question than has been previously thought," Feduccia said.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/08/020815072053.htm
This is hopeless when people are convinced creationism is science. The world began 6000 years ago. Good God! No wonder kids are ignorant when they get out of school when people want to teach them this creationist crap.
This is hopeless when people are convinced evolutionism is science. The world began 6B years ago. Good God! No wonder kids are ignorant when they get out of school when people want to teach them this evolutionist-SLIME crap.
a whole in the ground and your going to correct----criticize me?
a hole in the ground and your going to correct----criticize me?
strike twu!
You do not need to be a scientist to realize that evolution is not science. All you need is common sense. Evolutionists are constantly proven wrong in their assumptions because they are not based on science, evidence, or experimentation - as this article abundantly shows.
BTW - there is no such thing as 'creationism'. There is Christianity, there is Judaism, but there is no 'creationism'. The only 'creationist' Church in existence is the one evolutionists invented to insult those who believe in a Creator.
BTW - there is no such thing as 'creationism'. There is Christianity, there is Judaism, but there is no 'creationism'.
85 posted on 10/27/2002 7:19 AM EST by gore3000
Some would argue (well, at least one would argue) that it is we -- that pronoun includes the Pope, virtually all Catholics, virtually all mainstream Protestants and virtually all Jews -- who are on shaky footing.
No, not with the name. I have this: "Of course he was a creationist. If he was a Christian he believed in a Creator." My latest version of my "G3K placemarker" was saved on 13 July, so the original appeared before then. I don't know when.
If memory serves, you added that entry on the same thread that statement was made. 50 years from now we can share a tall pitcher of lemonade on the veranda and say to each other, "Remember the spring of ought-two? Such a fertile time for bluefoolery."
To: Junior
Aldrin may have been a Christian, but that does not mean he was a creationist.Of course he was a creationist. If he was a Christian he believed in a Creator. What your post shows is that you judge everyone by the silly standards of your silly little world - whether someone is an evolutionist or not.
Also, Aldrin was not a monkey in a cage, all the astronauts then were highly trained in many areas of science. Your deprecation of the courage and accomplishments of him and his fellow astronauts is totally despicable.
917 posted on 07/11/2002 8:54 AM EDT by gore3000
Why is that so hard to understand?
Read his biography and you'll understand why: Buzz Aldrin's Official Web Site.
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Wow. Just about everyone posting to this thread got banned.
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