Advice on in-line Muzzleloader/Blackpowder Rifle Sought??

self ^ | August 26th, 2002 | wardaddy

[wardaddy]

I am now a full member of a Tennessee deer camp and courtesy member of another camp in Mississippi. Both are archery and blackpowder only with stringent buck management and only allow large bucks and mature does to be harvested. I have historically relied on sidehammers but have decided to purchase an inline for optics capabilities and reliability. I have simply missed out on some decent shots at big bucks at dusk last season due to the blurring of iron sights at low light. Therefore, I'm going to take the plunge on a decent in-line. I've looked at the Remington 700ML and the 700ML Magnum. I've reviewed the Ruger, Winchester ,TC, and Knight models as well. I've likewise heard good stuff on the Gonic model.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Squantos]

I know I'll spend more on the optics. Unlike many others who would scoff at that, I bet you understand

LOL !! OK WD who told you I put a 1200$ Swarovski piece of glass on my chopped 100$ surplus 96 mauser 6.5 x 55 ????

Yer in between a rock and a hard place currently WD. Dollars for diapers or deer......we've all been there Bro :o) If you can put away enough game to cover the cost of the food the firearm would pay for itself in a season or two. And a quality piece of gear will survive until you pass the rifle on to the Diapered one some day.

Good luck with your choice...........Stay Safe !

[dd5339]

The TC Encores have to be ran through the yellow card and the NICS system because the frame can be used for any of their rifle barrels.

Of course that's one of the nice things about the Encore, one frame and about any caliber of barrel that you can imagine, (it won't handle the new WSM's or SAUM's though according to EA Brown Co).

Semper Fi

[dd5339]

Hey! No problem dropping a $1200 piece of glass on a "Swede". We've got two in the family and they shoot fantastic. I'd really like to build a target rifle around that caliber, it has some real great behaviors!

Wardog, I know what you mean by having a toddler at home, my wife and I have a 9 month old. We had to pass on a custom Mauser in 308 the other day. Don't regret it though, no matter how nice the rifle it won't grin at you and hold out it's arms to be picked up when you come home from work.

Semper Fi

[wardaddy]

LOL....yep I am very familiar with babies right about now with a 2 year old manchild and another on the way. That'll be four...anymore beyond that at my age..44...will be an actof G-d. My two year old is fascinated by guns....obsessed is really a better word.

I chose the Leupold (30mm tube)3X9 or 3.5X12 with 50mm objective and heavy duplex IR for the price. I would love Swor or Khales or Zeiss or Pentax but I simply can't afford it. Nightforce is more range oriented and too expensive as well. I'll buy that thru SWFA.com, best prices I've seen. Any thoughts on that optics choice is welcome.

My local primitive weapons fellow just quoted me 50 bucks less than Bass Pro Shops on the Winchester 150. Grey composite stock with matte blue barrel. Tempting.

With a baby coming at the start of ML season, I'll be doing a lot of begging and pleading to get away for much hunting till mid December or January anyhow.

[dd5339]

My wife was deer hunting at 38 weeks. She didn't get anything though. If I'm right she was hunting at 2 weeks post partum, (she got charged by a herd of deer and was wanting her Mauser with a fixed bayonet instead of her TC Encore).

For optics on a budget, I've been very impressed with Simmons. I've got a Whitetail Classic on my Sig in '06. The scope will shoot a square if I'm doing my part. It's been knocked around while hunting and once the rifle and scope took a tumble off the bench at the range, no damage. The Whitetail Classic can be had on closeout for $99 from MidwayUSA.

If I had the budget I really like the IOR Valda scopes coming out of eastern Europe. Real nice quality at a reasonable price. They advertise in the back of GUN LIST most issues.

Semper Fi

[wardaddy]

My little brother who is the resident black gun freak has mentioned the Valda optics.

[archy]

I'm not real familiar with any in-line flintlocks...*rocksparker firelocks* being more in my line, and currently reworking a Harper's Ferry M1824 which may see use on a whitetail if I find the right brushy area, in which it should perform at least as well as a 12-gauge shotgun. But I really can't make much of a claim to knowledge about the more *modern* in-line frontstuffer charcoal burners. Perhaps it's a gap in my knowledge I should take steps to correct, but I sure can't claim full understanding of the flint and caplock guns yet.

Kindly keep us advised. This is a subject I'd like to know a bit more about, particularly as to what seems to work well and what doesn't. I presume that since you're working with an M700 action, you're happily righthanded, though something like 1 shooter in six is said not to be.

-archy-/-

[Vic3O3]

All the online stores already consider the Encores to merit FFL or background database for purcahse for some reason.

That's because you can interchange barrels to make the rifle a centerfire one of practically any caliber. CF rifles require background checks. Barrels by themselves do not require a NICS check.

[wardaddy]

Well...I broke down on the way home and stopped by to see my local primitive dealer and picked up the Winchester X150 Magnum with the 209 shotshell primer. Grey composite with blue barrel. I liked the way it felt (longer trigger pull) and it appears they are selling fast which is encouraging although it's the first year it's been offered.

Now for the scope....either the Leupold or Springfield Armory in 56 objective with Duplex IR....so far.

Thanks to everyone....

BTW, it was cash and carry....none of that nasty FLEO paperwork. Some states require the database crap for anything with the 209 ignition.

[wardaddy]

see above...thanks

[in the Arena]

SLB : That's a hoot. In high school I browned the barrel of a CVA Kentucky rifle on my mom's kitchen table. I used a propane torch though. I still have it but have never hunted with it.

wardaddy : I'd never discourage anyone from purchcasing another firearm...but have you thought about fiber optic sights on your sidehammer ? I've never used them...just a thought.

[river rat]

Sorry I came so late to the discussion --- but it looks like you've already heard of the x150 Magnum/209.

I doubt you will be unhappy... Had the opportunity to range fire the .50 cal - and was stunned by the look, feel and accuracy right out of box. The fiber optic sights are fantastic for us old farts...very effective. The piece you bought - blue steel on Gray Flec is the best value. I don't recall powder charge or bullet weight/type that Jim had stuffed - but is was certainly correct for that barrel at 100yds.

Unsolicited suggestion... While experimenting with receipes - try a few batches using a black powder replacement called "Clean Shot"... Developed as a volume for volume replacement for black powder -- for muzzle loaders or black powder/cartridge pistols. I have seen no degradation of performance - but a BIG improvement in ease of clean up. That's why is called "Clean Shot" I would guess. Tap water removes all the surface "junk" and then dry and oil.... It's FAST! and Pretty... A few quick swabs with a solvent patch during a half day of firing was enough for us.

Another benefit they claim is No Sulfur smell, No Sulfur fouling and NO SULFUR CORROSION. Haven't used it long enough to determine if this is true... Its not cheap - but our "clean up time" is worth something!

Check them out if you're interested:
www.cleanshot.com
cleanshot@aol.com
Have fun - and good luck.
Semper Fi

[wardaddy]

Thanks.....that was my immediate reaction. I liked the feel. The longer than typical trigger pull (as compared to most composite in-lines), the solidness,cheek piece, the fluted barrel. I knew right away, that I liked the "feel". The price was good. Now, I get to decide on the proper optics.

Yes, I have used Clear and also Clean shot. One of them actually makes pellets now. No doubt , it's a big improvement over Gorex in the fouling department.

Taking apart the X150 is a snap too.

Stay safe.

[wardaddy]

I have actually bought glow paint and dabbed dots on the front and rear sights of my Jaeger .54 and yes....it does help.

Thanks.

[TexasRepublic]

I and several friends have concluded that Goex Clear Shot is better than the Clean Shot -- more consistant, but also more expensive. Has anyone tried the new Hodgden 777 powder?

[GOPcapitalist]

This may be a little off topic from your direct question but it could help if you're looking for a quality rifle or something unique. IMHO nothing beats the classics and there are several makers out there that do quality reproductions of old muzzleloaders, some of them very accurate and high precision. Check out Pedersoli's lineup - they'll send you a catelogue or something if you contact them on their website.

[wardaddy]

Some folks swear by it...Hogden.

[GOPcapitalist]

Just scrolled down and noticed you're familiar with them so disregard the previous. They are great firearms though as are most b. powder...I'm probably going to go shopping for a new rifle fairly soon.

For the recreational stuff I just got a .44 bp revolver. I've also got a small cannon from a little iron manufacturing shop in the NW.

[wardaddy]

Good to see ya...

I own a Pedersoli Jaeger .54 and a Pedersoli Kentucky Style Super Cub in .45 for my 13 year old daughter. I also have a custom handmade 5' long Appalachin .50 with heavy burly maple and Green Mt. barrel...round ball only.

I bought the Winchester X150 magnum(209 primer) and just ordered a Khales 1.5 X 6X 42 MM duplex today for optics. High Tech Black Powder...LOL....I'm almost ashamed.

[GOPcapitalist]

High Tech Black Powder...LOL....I'm almost ashamed.

ROTFLOL! I guess that's what they called the mechanizations back in the day as well. Think of it as an improvement on the old style guns that would have happened anyway had all the cartridges and clean burning stuff not come along.

The gun I just got was my first blackpowder revolver - I was a bit surprised because it's less like the modern ones than many might think. I stuck w/ the simple and bought an 1851 navy, though I did spend a little for the engraving extras. I got some wierd looks at the range sitting there for 5-10 minutes loading the thing the first time out but it packs quite a bang though when it fires and is worth the time.