Firefighters refuse to flee, stay to fight blaze

The Arizona Republic ^ | July 14, 2002 | Tom Zoellner

[Constitutionalist Conservative]

Coman and Debbie Garvin stand on a fire line they built and talk about their efforts to help maintain fire lines around Clay Springs to save homes during the "Rodeo-Chediski" fire.

CLAY SPRINGS - This is a story about a town that felt it had to break the law to save itself.

[Constitutionalist Conservative]

"In an emergency situation, it can't be a democracy," said Roy Hall, operations chief of the incident management team. "Somebody's got to be in charge. And true heroism comes through standing together. This little community tried to maintain its identity to a fault, to a detriment."

Hall compared the renegade effort to a surgeon trying to operate on a spouse. Fighting to save one's hometown creates emotional pressure that can only cloud judgment and prudence, he said.

This fellow's attitude really bugs me. His words are indicative of the contempt government officials appeared to have toward people who became convinced that they had to work "outside the command structure" to save their town.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

The Feds wanted the town to burn, period. Charcoal is easy to roll it into federal lands.

[thinktwice]

Department of Public Safety

The organization's title tells almost all one needs to know in that it portrays a collectivist, big-government, slave-state attitude that is anti-individual freedom to the core.

[kaktuskid]

DPS is the fancy name for the AZ Highway Patrol aka "Smokey"

[Icthus]

"..They're running chainsaws in the dark without headlamps. They're not working with us. We need to do something to get them working with us.."

Nooooo.....they were worrying more about fighting the fire than fighting with the Feds.

[Slainte]

I'm furious. Absolutely furious. The arrogance. I am so sick and tired of apperachtiks like Mr. Hall telling us how we can and can't use our own property, what we can and can't do. Clearly, the government does not always know best, and they're far more interested in covering their own assess than they are in anything else.

For whatever it's worth, here's their website-
http://www.fireteam-sw.com/humphrey/indexTRY.htm

and a contact e-mail
southwestteam@yahoo.com

Other than that, I didn't see any other contact information for Mr. Hall or his superiors. This guy needs to be called to the carpet and reassigned to an artic research facility.

[lucky7]

My, my I think from reading these replys a bunch of ego's got bent out of shape. Hey people its over, they saved there town they get a big at-a-boy, and the sore losers go sulk in the corner.

[Slainte]

But they're not getting a big at-a-boy, and the government class here is making not-so-veiled threats that they could be charged for having the audacity to stand and fight.

Out of the goodness of their heart, they won't press charges, but oh they could, and they're making that very clear.

I'm left with the feeling that these guys are sorry that the town didn't burn, because it shows their lack of motivation. The actions of the townspeople have shown the fire management bureacracy to be far more interested in protecting their own turf and excercising power than they are in fighting fires.

[rellimpank]

--good for them. During the week and a half we were hearing from the media that the fire was nearing Show Low, two operators with D9 Cats could have had a quarter mile firebreak around the whole town. The geniuses that "fight" fires from Forest Service headquarters in Washington, D.C. either don't know this or have some other motivation for not doing it--

[lucky7]

Bump this reply to the very top, a classice case of government bureacracy protecting there turf.

[lowbridge]

"In an emergency situation, it can't be a democracy," said Roy Hall, operations chief of the incident management team. "Somebody's got to be in charge"

Yeah. The eco-maniacs whose wacko policies have already killed other firefighters in the past.

[sheltonmac]

"In an emergency situation, it can't be a democracy," said Roy Hall, operations chief of the incident management team. "Somebody's got to be in charge. And true heroism comes through standing together. This little community tried to maintain its identity to a fault, to a detriment."

Not to change the subject, but this seems to be the attitude of the federal government in the "war" on terrorism: "In an emergency situation, it can't be a democracy..."

All I can say is, good for these brave individuals! I don't know what's more dangerous, fighting a raging wildfire or standing up to Uncle Sam. I suppose George Washington knew what he was talking about when he said, "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master."

[ppaul]

Several heated arguments and near-fistfights with federal officials failed to change their minds.

Too bad their chutzpah will not inspire the rest of us to do the same.
No.
I am afraid we'll all just continue with our "voluntary compliance".
The occasional resistor will get jail time, or a bullet.

[ppaul]

BTTT

[Twodees]

If the fire had gotten closer, perhaps the firefighters acting under supervision would them feel compelled to rescue him and others who circumvented roadblocks. If some of those rescuing firefighters had been killed doing that then would you still feel supportive of the renagade firefighters??

If If If....If six was nine and eleven was thirteen you still wouldn't have a point. The US is not a collective, at least not yet. Individuals have every right to tell some bureaucrat to take a hike when he tells them to let their houses burn.

Federal command structures in agencies like BLM and others aren't worth much when their leaders are soft-handed bureaucrats who worry more about challenges to their authority than about the lives and property of the people they presume to rule.

[Twodees]

The US is not a collective??? Now who has no point, or relevance here?

You of course. Federal chains of command are for federal employees, not for citizens. The citizens of that little town did what they had to do to protect their property. The bureacrat who disapproves can crap in his hat and wear it backwards for all the difference his whining will make.

Since you like all those ifs, if the locals had said that they were going to try to save their homes but they wanted radios to call for help if they needed it, then the feds would have had reason to criticize them. Those folks would have died doing what they were doing without calling for help most likely. I know you think that's not possible, but it's just the way Americans are. We're not sheep like you Canadians.

You can follow the orders of bureaucrats if you like. I've been backsassing them and their politician pals all my adult life and don't intend to change.

[dixierat22]

Jim Clawson, a law enforcement official with the U.S. Forest Service, said he sympathized with the renegades but believed they acted out of a misperception that the federal incident management team was too cavalier about letting houses burn down. "I'm sorry they felt we didn't do everything possible, but we did," he said. "They have to understand we had a job to do and that was put the fire out."

This guy thinks they did EVERYTHING possible? Then why were the townspeople able to save their homes?
This is just another example of how arrogant the rulers have become!