U.S. Chopper Loaded With Troops Shotdown in E. Afghanistan

MSNBC Breaking Live

[RCW2001]

MSNBC reporting unknown casualties, CNN reporting multiple casualties... Developing...

[ChadGore]

I wonder if the OSPREY ! would have gotten these boys out of there faster ?

[ladtx]

Very good. I second your comment about "arm chair wing commanders".

[niteowl77]

My son (a 68Foxtrot) says that the Chinook would be his personal choice from a safety/reliability standpoint, and that the birds will amaze the uninitiated when thrown around by a pilot familiar with his machine. Unfortunately, they all make good targets at certain times.

Ed

[Illbay]

The poster seemed to be referring to women dying in combat.

I'm sure that there are women who've died trying to handle a man's job, though woefully inadequate.

IMO, the military is there to PROTECT the women and children, not make career alternatives for them.

[archy]

All in the eye of the beholder I suppose. To me it's what a helicopter is supposed to look like. And surprisingly faster than many realize. Ask the Cobra pilot who tried to pass me one day, as he came up on my tail I just keep nosing it over, he never made it past me and I beat him back to base.

What type of fire do you think brought down the Chinook? It could literally have been anything from small arms fire to a hit from a heat-seeking or laser guided missile, particularly if the crew were fighting otherr mechanical problems or if the aircraft was heavily laden with cargo, which would explain why only 10 or so were aboard.

But from what we've heard so far, since it was Afghan instructors sent by the Taliban who taught the Somalis how to successfully attack tAmerican rotary-wing aircraft in Somalia, I'd put my money on an RPG-7 antitank rocket grenade launcher from about 900 meters, if I were inclined to bet on that sort of thing. There's certainly no shortage of either RPG-7 *Knut* launchers or PG-7 antitank rockets in the area, and a hit from one can knock out a tank, much less a thin-skinned Chinook.

[ladtx]

Women don't fly choppers in combat. Check the rulebook.

Don't bet the farm on that statement.

[joeyman]

My husband's out on 6 month deployment aboard a fast attack sub. News like this is tearing me apart.

Underneath all that water, he's probably safer than you, me, or any other american citizen is.

[fix]

Women don't fly choppers in combat.

Sorry bud. You're wrong. Women fly choppers into combat. Women fly fighters into combat. Like it or not, they are there. Most of those I served with were a cut above the rest, outstanding pilots and crew. Don't knock 'em unless you've been there.

[shezza]

My husband's out on 6 month deployment aboard a fast attack sub.

Thank you, and thanks to your husband for your incredible sacrifices in the fight for freedom. More soldiers are packing their gear and more families are saying goodbye, even today. (This thing is far from over.)

[My Favorite Headache]

Now is the time for 3 things.

1. Prayer
2. Realize that this is war and these things will happen and that we are lucky so far with the fatalities and casualties. 3. Drop some serious weapons on them. Time for Atomic and Nuclear. Pull our boys out of there and just melt Al Queda and Taliban scum.Sorry if innocents get killed.

[American in Israel]

Oh man, war sucks... Blessings on our men on the front lines. May their eyes and ears be sharp and their hearts strong.

[homeschool mama]

bump

[MarkWar]

>The key to win is to take the REAL situation into account and build on it.

Well, that makes sense.

Do you think politicians -- even republican ones -- will ever take reality into account?

Perhaps the military could stage a temporary coup d'état in Washington, clean up this mess overseas, and then let everyone vote on a clean slate of politicos to start running things again...

Mark W.

[doug from upland]

I am as heartbroken over the death of our soldiers as are you, however, this is a different kind of war. We can't kill millions of innocent civilians with WOMDs. But we should be dropping daisy cutter after daisy cutter where they have troops.

[HamiltonJay]

I dunno about your claims of Chinook CH-47 reliability. Marine's and Navy don't call em "froggers" because of their propensity to stay aloft, but because of their ability to return to earth quite a bit.

[smith288]

Thats a bunch of bunch Utopia crap that wont work. BOMB BOMB BOMB. Condemnation works as well as a ruler on a young punks hand.

[Magnum44]

Come on Bush,show some guts. Do a Truman, and let's get this nonsense over with.

The president is showing guts! He's committed to the fight for the long haul. And with the weapons we have at our disposal, it is totally innappropriate to use nukes. As we were forewarned, we should be prepared for losses in this war if we believe the cause to be justified.

I regret to inform you but there is no quick fix in this war. We will be lucky to claim victory in 30 years, much less 10 or 5. The extremist elements of the 'have not' religions have been indoctrinating soldiers from the toddler age to hate the west and western lifestyle. This will take at least a generation to correct and we have barely started. We will have to be on gaurd for the threat from terrorist like those of OBL for the rest of our lives and, sadly, our children will live with this too.

[MeekOneGOP]

Anyone see We Were Soldiers this weekend...?

Nope. I don't hardly go to movies, BUT I might get out today to see that one - really! Gonna try anyway. . .

[The Turbanator]

THANK YOU!

[cake_crumb]

"What are the alternatives? I see the two - USA will micromanage and babysit Afghanistan and after a while will run away complaining about savagery and lack of thankfulness from the natives."

You've pointed out the problem. There's a third, slightly better alternative, and as far as I know, this is the president's intent: the international peacekeeping force, which also happens to include the wonderful extremist-sympathizer EU-whiners can do the babysitting. This takes care of two problems:

1: The leaders of the EU will have no further opportunity of accusing the US of summarily killing orphaned puppies and kittens. They will be forced to ( privately, anyway ) see just how incredibly complicated the entire Asian situation really is.

2: The US and it's close allies, like the Brits, will be free to go after terrorism elsewhere, without having our hands tied by moonlighting as international nannies.

"Before the Soviet intervention Afghanistan was a state with an ineffectual government based on the compromise and some degree of consensus."

You seem to be confusing self-motivated compromise by politicians and mini dictators - pretty much the same thing there - with a consensus by the Afghan people.

Yes, things were somewhat better during the period of Soviet INFLUENCE over the Afghan governmant. When the Soviets tried to TAKE OVER the country...well...you know the rest. They ran into the same culture we are dealing with right now.

There is a radical new idea slowly percolating through the conciousness of the Arab populace: representative government.

I wonder how it'll turn out?