No no ... this ain't no "Prairie Chapel" ...
You find that down the road a few miles
(and mebbe a few years' time so's folks forget).
No harm done ... just move along and remember: "Don't Mess with Texas"
Posted on 11/26/2001 9:33:39 AM PST by Aerial
Speaking of Waffen SS assault teams, I'm sure Danforth was "just doing his job", Rowdee. What a privilege to have public servants such as these who will stop at nothing to make the world safe for truth, justice and the "American Way".
I've studied this for several years, looking at it from both sides, and believe it was a deliberate show of strength and power by the Clintons, and they included Hubbel and Foster. Reno was nothing more than a fallguy (in her case, yes, guy) put out there to take blame, so the Clintons could hide behind her skirts. I find it nearly impossible that the fire began on the day Reno had a previously scheduled speech in Baltimore, leaving the Clintons running the show.
You might do a search on Danny Coulson, who was a former asst deputy director for the FBI; read his book, then learn how his feelings changed about who was complicit in how the fire was started--one Richard Rogers, cdr of the HRT at both Ruby Ridge and Waco. He had no authority to use the volatile gas canisters, nor did anyone else on site, but he is the one who gave the order. Who authorized him to change Reno's order that no flammable canisters would be used? Who was at the helm in Reno's absence? The Clintons, Hubbel and Foster.
Rogers is the one who should be dragged in, threatened with facing the charges alone; maybe that will convince him to tell where his orders originated. Rogers also changed the FBI Rules of Engagement as to when the agents could and should fire, again in both situations, RR and Waco. I believe he and Jeffrey Jamar were part of a rogue group of FBI agents who made their own rules, and have caused the appearance of a totally corrupt, gun-happy FBI. OTOH, many are gone, incl the criminal FBI counsel, Shapiro. Read up on Rogers, and you may change your mind. NBC's Dateline ran a segment with Danny Coulson (may be Colson) more than a year ago, and it was surprisingly candid, with Colson clearly having changed his mind from what was written in his book that generally absolved all Govt wrongdoing, and when asked "why", he said he'd asked other agents and then reached this conclusion. I have on tape, but have asked NBC to rerun, but not even a reply. With Weaver receiving $1M+ settlement, we know there was wrongdoing at RR, so why not Waco, too. If you haven't watched the Waco documentary tapes, that may also provide insight.
About Koresh. Pedophile? No, not in the true sense; he simply married these young women to have as many children as he believed God wanted. He may have been deranged, but IMO he believed in a literal translation of his Bible. The odd thing, when asked who told her of child abuse at Mount Carmel, Reno said "I can't remember".
Please understand I'm not asking you to take my word, rather suggesting you consider what I've written, do searches and read the multitude of articles written by credible journalists; then think about this, how Coulson publicly spoke out on this, naming Rogers as the one who changed the order on which type of gas was used, the fact he nor anyone else on site at Waco had the authority to change. Coulson had nothing to gain at that point, he was contradicting what he'd already written in his book, which I believe is "No Heroes".
Funny, isn't it....how both of them show up at Waco.
Rodgers/Rogers refused to testify to Congress, as I believe Lon did likewise....at least that SOB was being charged with manslaughter in Idaho.....Rodgers is just a bad assed character, a rogue, if you will.
How so? Danforth sticks with the claim that the FBI did not fire. The FLIR clearly shows they did.
Yea they got to retire with a pension and honors. Got medals for their actions at Waco. Couple of nice guys worthy of praise for their brave and honorable efforts to save us all from those evil Davidians.
Many, many crimes. The most obvious, and most undeniable, was failure to submit to federal authorities executing a warrant.
. Look, the law shows at my house, I let them in. Trooped flashes his lights at me on the highway, I pull over. All part of living in civil, law abiding society. What’s the hard part?
We read about this all the time, on a smaller scale…. Loser drug peddler is approached by police… loser drug peddler resists… loser drug peddler gets head busted while being forced to the ground.
Now, ACLU may have a problem with this scenario, but not me. That is what you get for being a deviant, lawbreaking scumbag.
The only difference between loser drug peddler and the branch Davidians is 1. there where a lot of them instead of one, and 2., the Davidians put their kids in harms way (inexcusable). And oh yeah…. The whole Koresh = Jesus think.. most drug users are too lucid for that J
Really, somebody tell me where I am wrong ?
PS... I really am open to suggestions here... lets have a discussion.
Totally beside the point... if there was a warrant, it should have been executed, and the subjects should have complied. If a false warrant was issued, that should have been a separate prosecution.
It is not up to every subject of a warrant to decide if the warrant is valid, no more than a citizen may decide if a law applies to himself or not. We cannot 'choose' which laws to obey.
You dont really believe that, do you? Many of the things I have read on FR have made me at least question my beliefs, and I like to think that I have made a few others think as well.
Thats why I come here, bro!
Thanks for taking the time to reply to my posts, to you all.
Are you indicating you're open on this? My recollection is that I prompted you on what laws Koresh broke. You said he broke laws. My question to you remains what laws did he break?
You have been completely taken in. There was no crime, there were no guns, there was nothing. Nothing but an eccentric Christian teaching eccentric theology to a few monastic believers (men and women) and their children...
You claim that the FLIR "clearly" shows that the FBI fired automatic weapons into the building.
By what methods did you identify the individual shooters?
By what means did you ascertain their targets?
dan
The FLIR flashes were outside the compound, where FBI were known to be, going into the building. Is there any other explanation for who generated the flashes that I have missed? (besides the sun)
By what means did you ascertain their targets?
What does it matter? They said they didn't fire. They did. The FBI lied and then Danforth lied too. That is simple to comprehend by anyone who sees it. I don't see what there is to argue about.
88 posted on 11/27/01 9:34 PM Pacific by Mike_Manske
You might begin by viewing McNulty's "Waco: Rules of Engagement", in which there are filmed telephone conversations between Koresh and Govt agents, as well as comments by the local sheriff about his contacts with Koresh over the years.
Were they stockpiling weapons? Not according to the locals, who have stated the Davidians bought guns needing repair, repaired and then sold, with the income one of their main sources of subsistence.
Exactly; and could have been served when the agents had pleasant conversations with Koresh during his trips to town.
People are also forgetting about the undercover agent, I believe his name is Rodriguez. During his testimony at a House hearing, he summarily testified *against* the agents present outside the compound--the agents were so surprised, a couple nearly suffered from whiplash. I'll have to look at my tape to tell exactly what he said, but he clearly believed that the Govt bears some responsibility on how the end came about; he appeared agonized while speaking about his recollection.
95 posted on 11/28/01 2:49 AM Pacific by Earn Your Vote
What I remember from the FLIR tapes, the flashes came from the armored vehicles, and probably were not manned by the FBI. What should have been clear to Danforth, the flashes were obviously not made by the sun as claimed. So, perhaps he asked the right question, but substitute xxxx for the FBI. Maybe this is one bit of needed info that Danforth now claims was not provided.
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