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Genetic evidence links Jews to their ancient tribe
JP ^ | 11/20/2001 | By Judy Siegel

Posted on 11/19/2001 3:41:35 PM PST by Sabramerican

Genetic evidence links Jews to their ancient tribe
By Judy Siegel

JERUSALEM (November 20) - Genetic evidence continues to provide additional proof to the claims that the Jewish people are descended from a common ancient Israelite father: Despite being separated for over 1,000 years, Sephardi Jews of North African origin are genetically indistinguishable from their brethren from Iraq, according to The Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

They also proved that Sephardi Jews are very close genetically to the Jews of Kurdistan, and only slight differences exist between these two groups and Ashkenazi Jews from Europe.

These conclusions are reached in an article published recently in the American Journal of Human Genetics and written by Prof. Ariella Oppenheim of the Hebrew University (HU) and Hadassah-University Hospital in Ein Kerem.

Others involved are German doctoral student Almut Nebel, Dr. Marina Faerman of HU, Dr. Dvora Filon of Hadassah-University Hospital, and other colleagues from Germany and India.

The researchers conducted blood tests of Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Kurdish Jews and examined their Y chromosomes, which are carried only by males. They then compared them with those of various Arab groups - Palestinians, Beduins, Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese - as well as to non-Arab populations from Transcaucasia - Turks, Armenians and Moslem Kurds.

The study is based on 526 Y chromosomes typed by the Israeli team and additional data on 1,321 individuals from 12 populations. The typing of the Jewish groups was performed at the National Genome Center at HU's Silberman Institute of Life Sciences.

The Fertile Crescent of the Middle East was one of the few centers in which the transition from hunting-gathering to permanent settlement and agriculture took place. Genetic studies suggest that migrating Neolithic farmers dispersed their technological innovations and domesticated animals from the Middle East towards Europe, North Africa and Southwest Asia.

Studies of Y chromosomes have become powerful tools for the investigation of the genetic history of males, since these chromosomes are transmitted from fathers to sons.

Surprisingly, the study shows a closer genetic affinity by Jews to the non-Jewish, non-Arab populations in the northern part of the Middle East than to Arabs. These findings are consistent with known cultural links that existed among populations in the Fertile Crescent in early history, and indicate that the Jews are direct descendants of the early Middle Eastern core populations, which later divided into distinct ethnic groups speaking different languages.

Previous investigations by the HU researchers suggested a common origin for Jewish and non-Jewish populations living in the Middle East. The current study refines and delineates that connection.

It is believed that the majority of today's Jews - not including converts and non-Jews with whom Jews intermarried - descended from the ancient Israelis that lived in the historic Land of Israel until the destruction of the Second Temple and their dispersal into the Diaspora.

The researchers say that a genetic analysis of the chromosomes of Jews from various countries show that there was practically no genetic intermixing between them and the host populations among which they were scattered during their dispersion - whether in Eastern Europe, Spain, Portugal or North Africa.

A particularly intriguing case illustrating this is that of the Kurdish Jews, said to be the descendants of the Ten Tribes of Israel who were exiled in 723 BCE. to the area known today as Kurdistan, located in Northern Iraq, Iran and Eastern Turkey. They continued to live there as a separate entity until their immigration to Israel in the 1950s. The Kurdish Jews of today show a much greater affinity to their fellow Jews elsewhere than to the Kurdish Moslems.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: archaeology; genetics; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history
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To: Sabramerican
"Having a Jewish mother, the child is a Jew. If we want to play with hypothetical fantasies regarding geologies then possibly nothing is at it seems. Maybe the Queen of England is really Jewish. Is William really Charles's son? "

But the child wouldn't be a 100% pure descendant of the ancient Israelites. In reality the child would be a 50% descendant of the ancient Israelites. Repeat the process a few times and you could end up with a population that is 10% descended from the ancient Israelites claiming to be 100% pure.

81 posted on 11/19/2001 7:11:25 PM PST by Marduk
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To: monkeyshine
Or rather, the first son killed his first brother.

I had heard that the argument Cain and Abel had in the field had to do with birthright. Since they were twin brothers, who would get the birthright? Cain said because he was out first, he gets the birthright. But Abel argued that because he came out second, it stands to reason that he was the first one put in (as in the last pickle in the Jar was the first to be put in), therefore he should be given the birthright. As a result of this argument, Cain slew his brother.

82 posted on 11/19/2001 7:12:15 PM PST by monkeyshine
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To: Marduk
Repeat the process a few times

Right. Good scenario. All you have to figure out is that throughout history Jewish woman had illegitimate children with Gentiles- unknown to their husbands and raised them as Jews and the resulting male children married wives who did the same.

Write a screenplay. Will do lunch.

83 posted on 11/19/2001 7:16:47 PM PST by Sabramerican
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To: Marduk
So you're saying that the Lemba might have been "black" even before they went to Sub-Saharan Africa. If so I very much doubt it. Even the darkest North-Africans and Middle Easterners are not as dark as Sub-Saharans. And well, isn't it convenient that the black Lemba happened to choose to migrate to sub-Saharan Africa instead of Northern Europe, in which case we would have had black Jews amongst a Nordic population?

You can "very much doubt" it all you want but the fact of the matter is that the ancient Israelites spent hundreds of years in Egypt and were slaves. There were black slaves as well. It is entirely possible, indeed, I'm going to suggest very likely that the Cohen gene could have aslo found its way through Kohath's heirs apart from Aaron, in the black population. You rejecting this process is unreasonable and unwarranted. You don't reject other equally reasonable alternative explanations and this is clearly one.

84 posted on 11/19/2001 7:17:04 PM PST by Lent
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To: Marduk
Of course there has to be SOME intermingling. It also depends on how many children are born to those and how consistly they continue to marry within their subgroup.
85 posted on 11/19/2001 7:17:10 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: Marduk
Not necessarily true. Outbreeding tends to encourage outbreeding to the point that the Jewish self-identity is lost. Hypothetically a bunch of "diluted Jews" could claim 100% Jewishness, but I think the opposite would be true, that within a few generations they would claim no religion or a gentile religion. It is hard to imagine someone who would claim a Jewish identity without an understanding of Jewish religion and practice. Obviously if such a person were intending to keep Judaism prominent, he/she would know that they were not 100% pure and would rectify it through conversion, or if it were a male he simply needs to marry a matrilinially descended Jewish woman and practice Judaism, thus raising children who were both ethnically and spiritually Jewish.

It's not strictly about genes and a direct line -- although I have no doubt that there is a core direct line... but rather it is a large group that is bred around this direct line. Some breed all the way out of the line, others breed themselves back towards the line, while some stay completely in the line.

86 posted on 11/19/2001 7:21:30 PM PST by monkeyshine
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To: bribriagain
It really doesn't matter. They'll all be democrats, regardless. Abraham was a Democrat?
87 posted on 11/19/2001 7:31:57 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: Lent
"You rejecting this process is unreasonable and unwarranted. You don't reject other equally reasonable alternative explanations and this is clearly one."

I reject it because the Lemba seem to be too black for that. Even if there were Negro slaves in Egypt and Jews mixed with them I still wouldn't expect them to be so black as to be indistinguishable from sub-saharans. If the Lemba looked like mulattos or so I would consider it.

Reconsidering, if there was a large group of Negro slaves in Egypt and Jews mixed among them in a manner similar to that which might have happened in sub-saharan Africa it could be a remote possibility. It it strikes me as the most unlikely possibily. It's quite convenient that the only black Jews would have chosen to emigrate to sub-saharan Africa than anywahere else. It's also convenient that none of the white Jews chose to emigrate to sub-saharan Africa. I just don't buy it.

88 posted on 11/19/2001 7:34:50 PM PST by Marduk
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To: Sabramerican
"Right. Good scenario. All you have to figure out is that throughout history Jewish woman had illegitimate children with Gentiles- unknown to their husbands and raised them as Jews and the resulting male children married wives who did the same. "

That was just an extreme example attemping to show the fallibility of genealogies.

89 posted on 11/19/2001 7:36:54 PM PST by Marduk
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To: Lent
I'm going to suggest very likely that the Cohen gene could have aslo found its way through Kohath's heirs apart from Aaron

This is eminently reasonable.

90 posted on 11/19/2001 7:37:01 PM PST by monkeyshine
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To: monkeyshine
"Not necessarily true. Outbreeding tends to encourage outbreeding to the point that the Jewish self-identity is lost. Hypothetically a bunch of "diluted Jews" could claim 100% Jewishness, but I think the opposite would be true, that within a few generations they would claim no religion or a gentile religion."

A great deal of outbreeding isn't necessary. The Jews have been in diaspora for 2,000 years. If only %1 of the Jews in each generation engage in outbreeding and raise their kids as Jews, over a period of 2,000 years the Jewish population could end up with a high proprotion of Gentile genes. Over a long period of time a very small amount of outbreeding can produce the effect I describe. This can account for why Jews tend to resemble the people amongst which they live while at the same time still maintain some genetic distinctiveness.

91 posted on 11/19/2001 7:40:17 PM PST by Marduk
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To: medved
Very interesting...
92 posted on 11/19/2001 7:41:20 PM PST by Marduk
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To: Marduk
Maybe the Queen of England is really Jewish. Is William really Charles's son?

This is very weird, and I don't believe it's true, but there is one school of thought which holds the British royal family, including the Spencers (Princess Diana) are the descendants of the Tribe of Judah. Supposedly, a mohel (Jewish ritual surgeon) was invited to perform a circumcision on William and Harry.

I have heard this from a number of people, including Orthodox Jews, although I find it hard to take seriously.

93 posted on 11/19/2001 7:42:56 PM PST by Alouette
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To: Marduk; Lent
I think the problem is you are discussing different things. Genes (blackness of skin) are not Chromosomes (Kohen).
94 posted on 11/19/2001 7:44:18 PM PST by monkeyshine
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To: Marduk
I reject it because the Lemba seem to be too black for that. Even if there were Negro slaves in Egypt and Jews mixed with them I still wouldn't expect them to be so black as to be indistinguishable from sub-saharans. If the Lemba looked like mulattos or so I would consider it.

Not to me. Remember you don't know how dark any of Kohath's other heirs were. The other heirs could easily have the characteristics passed on. Your rejecting it is unreasonable in and of itself.

Reconsidering, if there was a large group of Negro slaves in Egypt and Jews mixed among them in a manner similar to that which might have happened in sub-saharan Africa it could be a remote possibility. It it strikes me as the most unlikely possibily. It's quite convenient that the only black Jews would have chosen to emigrate to sub-saharan Africa than anywahere else. It's also convenient that none of the white Jews chose to emigrate to sub-saharan Africa. I just don't buy it.

No.Remember anyone of the Kohathite heirs could have done so. This is not unreasonable in the least. Especially if THAT Kohathite group was DARKER and thus considered themselves more related to the African population than to the Israelites. There are many other reasons I could conceive of why THAT group chose Africa rather than crossing into the Promised Land (they might even have left when they found out they'd end up wandering for forty years in the desert!).

95 posted on 11/19/2001 7:46:09 PM PST by Lent
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To: monkeyshine
Thanks. I think so as well which is why if you trace the lineage it is simplistic to assert that the only reasonable explanation is what is being advanced as the typical diasporas admixture scenario.
96 posted on 11/19/2001 7:49:08 PM PST by Lent
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To: Marduk
I am no expert on genetics, but the cohen "gene" and/or the Jewish "gene" seems to be just loose terminology. What is at issue are genetic markers -- these appear to me to be specific combinations of genes on a chromosome.

I am off to study the technical side of this a little more. The article about "cohen genes" talked about "genetic markers" not genes. And it also mentioned chromosomes. These are 3 different terms and I presume they are vastly different animals.

97 posted on 11/19/2001 7:52:35 PM PST by monkeyshine
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To: Sabramerican
I have no knowledge or anything intellectual to add (not that I ever have on any other threads), except to say this is one of the most interesting posts I have ever read on FR. It's very fascinating.
98 posted on 11/19/2001 8:00:55 PM PST by Lanza
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To: muawiyah
Yeah, no argument...and your point is?
99 posted on 11/19/2001 8:21:18 PM PST by Pharmboy
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To: monkeyshine
"I am no expert on genetics, but the cohen "gene" and/or the Jewish "gene" seems to be just loose terminology. What is at issue are genetic markers -- these appear to me to be specific combinations of genes on a chromosome.

I am off to study the technical side of this a little more. The article about "cohen genes" talked about "genetic markers" not genes. And it also mentioned chromosomes. These are 3 different terms and I presume they are vastly different animals."

When they talk of chromosomes they are talking of the Y-chromosome. It is significant because it passed only from father to son.

The way they get the "cohen markers" is that they take people who are Cohens and look at their Y-chromosomes. They look for what genes they have in common with each other that they don't have in common with the human population as a whole. What they have in common is what they mean by "Cohen markers". This commonality then supports the idea of common ancestry on the male line.

100 posted on 11/19/2001 8:23:58 PM PST by Marduk
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