The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
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[hopefulpilgrim]

I guess I didn't phrase this question well a while ago. OK--let me try again. At the top and bottom of this window it says:

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Now, if I wanted to go to the page that has reply #1460, I'd just click where it says 1,451-1,500. But what if I wanted to go to the page that has reply #777? How would I get directly to that page?

[mitch5501]

Well yes I believe that it what it is about but it's my understanding that many here do not believe you can know with absolute certainty that you are saved.

I believe that when Jesus is accepted then that person is saved and actually needs to know that in order for certain other things to happen.

From my reading of scripture it appears to me that not knowing is a great hinderance to faith and understanding.

It is far more than something nice to know,it is actually vital.

Would love to take this further,it would be a great encouragement to those who are unsure.However,much like yourself,I am often not near a computer so I tend to post like you do,here and there when I can.Still...knowing you are saved is surely a worthwhile topic and who knows,maybe I could bring something to the discussion that hasn't been considered before.Would love to try anyways.

grace and peace to you all

God bless

[IMRight]

Re: your 1498 -

Amen

[IMRight]

I'm a cube jocky - Computer tech/agent. I troubleshoot hardeware and software problems all day long.

If you can get this worthless G4 working properly I many have to reconsider some of your positions;->

I'm convinced the "G" stands for garbage...

Havoc - I sympathise with your stress level. I'm a training officer for a mid-size bank, but because I have a modest amount of skills in the harware/software area (but VERY few in the network area) I often get called in for emergency repairs by senior management that either can't wait for our tech guys, or can't share the information with them. It's always an emergency isn't it? I feel your pain.

Conservonator (love the name) - The man said he works with hardare and software computer (tech/agent). He said nothing about black magic! Mac's are really a different world and you may be crossing a gulf larger than and Catholic/Protestant divide. How did you get involved in such a cult?

[IMRight]

Now, if I wanted to go to the page that has reply #1460, I'd just click where it says 1,451-1,500. But what if I wanted to go to the page that has reply #777? How would I get directly to that page?

Divine intervention.
I think this may be an annoying piece that goes along with an otherwise positive upgrade.

I think that letting the thread run into the many thousands of posts may turn out to be be more trouble than it is worth. What thinkest thou?

[Pelayo]

I'm not certain I really understand the point behind someone coming up with the term to be quite honest.

Well it is a specific term. It means Three people in one God. It doesn't mean a Triumvirate which would suggest three gods, and it doesn't mean three parts of one whole god put together, it means Three Persons Who are One God.

Tertullian
"Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent Persons, who are yet distinct One from Another. These Three are, one essence, not one Person, as it is said, 'I and my Father are One' [John 10:30], in respect of unity of Being not singularity of number" (ibid., 25).

It was hard for some people to understand, and if you live when paganism was still strong you would understand why we needed a specific word to describe it. You will find that most (all, as far as I know) unusual beliefs of the Church, not expressly found in the Bible (none are contradictory to it, though I know you disagree) are really an explanation of some truth to counter a challenge to it.

[OLD REGGIE]

Yes, Luke,Chapter 1 "Hail,Full of Grace"

One who has sin is NOT "Full or Grace"(or even "Highly Favored")
------------------------------------------------------------

Which Bible are you reading?

I found a few references to "Full of Grace".

John 1:
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.

(Jesus is "full of grace".)

and:

Acts 6:
8 And Stephen, full of grace and power, did great wonders and signs among the people.

(Stephen (full of grace...).

As for "Blessed; Scripture is full of "Blessed's.

============================================================

Luke 11:
27 As he said this, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, "Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts that you sucked!"
28 But he said, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!"

Just a few more "Blessed's".

Matthew 5:4 "Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
Matthew 5:5 "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
Matthew 5:6 "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
Matthew 5:7 "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
Matthew 5:8 "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
Matthew 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:11 "Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.

I could go on and on.

You must do better than that.

[OLD REGGIE]

I thought I made a pretty big statement in my post...ie:I believe 1 John 5:13 ends the debate of salvation by grace/works.

Welcome Mitch:

It depends on your perspective. If you have nothing to lose by accepting "free" salvation, you'll have no problem with this.

On the other hand------supposing you had a big business built on the concept of "works" (usually "works" has a dollar tag attached) and you had to justify "indulgances", you could not accept any such thing as "free" salvation.

[Pelayo]

Luke 11: 27 As he said this, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, "Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts that you sucked!" 28 But he said, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!"

Ah now I was waiting for this one to come up!
Who was the first person to hear the Word of God and really keep it in a literal sense? Jesus is not admonishing his mother, but stating why she is truly Blessed.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

John 1: 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. (Jesus is "full of grace".) and: Acts 6: 8 And Stephen, full of grace and power, did great wonders and signs among the people.

Can I be the first to tell you that "full of Grace" doesn't mean the same thing when it pertains to Stephen. I can't explain why, I just wanted to be the first one to tell you. :-)

[Iowegian]

Jesus is not admonishing his mother, but stating why she is truly Blessed.

Hey, how do you know? You yourself stated that you were humble enough to admit that you were not qualified to interpret Scripture. Yet you constantly do just that on this thread.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Can I be the first to tell you that "full of Grace" doesn't mean the same thing when it pertains to Stephen. I can't explain why, I just wanted to be the first one to tell you. :-)

It all goes back to that tree of knowledge thing, Eve said, God told us not eat of this tree Satan, Satan said, God didn't really mean that He meant this..... :)

BigMack

[RobbyS]

but my gut-feeling is that it seems to elevate her above God.

Rather than rely on your "Gut-feeling" i.e. evangelical prejudices, why not explore the history of the Christological contraversies of the 4th and 5th Centuries and see why Orthodox Christians adopted the term and why Arians and Nestorians --like you--opposed its use. Entirely Germane because this was essentially a war over the proper interpretation of the New Testament and because your views seem close to that of the Nestorians. Since you all are always looking for historical "footprints" of your doctrines, that should be another incentive.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Hey, how do you know? You yourself stated that you were humble enough to admit that you were not qualified to interpret Scripture. Yet you constantly do just that on this thread.

Naw, it came from the catholic leaders back at the fort or from one of the great news mag at the check out line at Alberstons. :)

BigMack

[hopefulpilgrim]

Can I be the first to tell you that "full of Grace" doesn't mean the same thing when it pertains to Stephen. I can't explain why, I just wanted to be the first one to tell you. :-)

Oh, but I'm sure someone out there can...and will!!

[OLD REGGIE]

Ah now I was waiting for this one to come up! Who was the first person to hear the Word of God and really keep it in a literal sense?

Was it Zechari'ah? It certainly wasn't Mary.

Jesus is not admonishing his mother, but stating why she is truly Blessed.

Is your imagination running wild? Where do you read Jesus was admonishing his mother?

What Jesus said:

"Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!"

What Pelayo says:

Jesus is not admonishing his mother, but stating why she is truly Blessed.

What Jesus said;

All who hear the word of God and keep it are blessed.

[dignan3]

I found a few references to "Full of Grace".
John 1:
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.
(Jesus is "full of grace".)
and:
Acts 6:
8 And Stephen, full of grace and power, did great wonders and signs among the people.
(Stephen (full of grace...).

Let us consult the Greek, both the Textus Receptus and Westcott-Hort editions.

person	Textus Receptus	Westcott-Hort
Jesus	pleres charitos	pleres charitos
Stephen	pleres pistos	pleres charitos
Mary	kecharitomene	kecharitomene

We see that in the Textus Receptus, which is the Greek the KJV translators used, Stephen is not called pleris chatitos like Jesus, but rather pleris pistos, which the KJV renders "full of faith". Regardless, the Greek is not the same as regards to Jesus/Stephen vs. Mary. Therein lies the difference.

The translation of kecharitomene into "Highly favored one" does not even begin to do the Greek justice, IMO. Even Jerome's translation, "full of grace", while superior to "Highly favored one", doesn't convey the full force of kecharitomene.

Also, no one ever used pleris charitos as a proper name for either Jesus or Stephen. On the other hand, the Angel used kecharitomene as if that was Mary's name. In other words, the Angel didn't say, "Hail Mary..." but rather, "Hail Kecharitomene. It's almost as if that is who and what Mary intrinsically was. Think about it.

Pray for John Paul II

[OLD REGGIE]

And what gives you the right to admonish anyone? You are the perfect example of the neighbor who says he hates the color of paint on his neighbors house when the truth is that he hates his neighbor.

The hatred you have for the Catholic Faith means that your tactics must include (1) never to seek common ground (2) to mock any Catholic devotion that differs from your own and. of course,(3) to refuse to knowledge that your doctrines are not individual but sectarian. None of these is likely to persuade anyone of anything.

------------------------------------------------------------

Just the two most recent posts with your favorite word, "hate"

I wonder if you realize your excessive use of "hate" is "hateful". Let's get off the crybaby, defensive kick and make an attempt to be more positive.

Yours in love and peace,

Reggie

[JHavard]

Navigation: use the links below to view more comments. first previous 1-50 ... 1,351-1,400, 1,401-1,450, 1,451-1,500, 1,501-1,520 last

pilgrim, I don't know if anyone helped you yet, but to find something in the 700's threads, click the "1-50" threads, then it will give you a selection from there to 400, click that highest number 400, and then you will get a selection from 300-400, then click that, and each time you will graduate to the next higher level until you come to the one you want. I hope this helps. :-) JH

[Pelayo]

Hey, how do you know? You yourself stated that you were humble enough to admit that you were not qualified to interpret Scripture. Yet you constantly do just that on this thread.

Oh I'm free to interpret, just not infallibly.