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How many preaching pacifism would accept life as a conquered people?
Union Leader ^ | Oct 04, 2001 | Michael Kelly

Posted on 10/04/2001 2:03:10 AM PDT by 2Trievers

LAST WEEK, I argued that those Americans who preached pacifism in response to the attacks of Sept. 11 were (borrowing from George Orwell) objectively pro-terrorist, objectively in favor of letting the masters of this attack escape to live and to commit more mass murders of Americans.

This upset some people. One Pennsylvania man issued what in pacifist circles must constitute a violent threat: “You may expect a series of letters from me and other folks in this regard, until such time as you deem it appropriate to issue a complete retraction of, and unqualified apology for, your comments.” Please, not the dread Series of Letters.

Let me see if I may cause further upset. Two propositions: The first is that much of what is passing for pacifism in this instance is not pacifism at all but only the latest tedious manifestation of a well-known pre-existing condition — the largely reactionary, largely incoherent, largely silly muddle of anti-American, anti-corporatist, anti-globalist sentiments that passes for the politics of the left these days. The second is that, again in this instance, the anti-war sentiment (to employ a term that encompasses both genuine pacifism and an opposition to war rooted in America-hatred) is intellectually dishonest, elitist and hypocritical.

That the anti-war sentiment is in general only a manifestation of the larger anomie of the reactionary left is clear. The first large anti-war demonstration was held last weekend in Washington and the most obvious fact about it was that this protest against war was planned before there was ever any thought of war. It had been intended as just another in the series of protests against globalism that have been serving as a sort of kvetch basin for all sorts of unhappy people who like to yell about the awfulness of “Amerika” or international corporations or rich people or people who drive large cars or drug companies that test their products on bunny rabbits or life its own unfair self.

When the terrorists murdered more than 6,000 people and the President said that America was going to do something commensurate about this, the organizers of the Washington protest realized they had found a fresh complaint and a fresh cause. They thought up a few new instantly tired slogans (“Resist Racist War”) and printed up a few new posters and —presto-changeo — thus was born an anti-war movement. Or something.

As to the second proposition. Osama bin Laden has told us by word and action that he sees himself and his cohort as engaged in a total war against the United States and that this war is one not just of nations but of cultures: Holy Islam versus a corrupt imperialist America. He has promised further attacks such as Sept. 11 unless the United States sues for peace under impossible terms, the abandonment of Israel being only one. In short, Osama bin Laden wishes to defeat the United States. So do others; for instance, Saddam Hussein.

Do the pacifists wish to live in a United States that has been defeated by Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein? Do they wish to live in a United States that has been defeated by any foreign force? Do they wish to live under an occupying power? Do they wish to live under, say, the laws of the Taliban or the Baath Party of Iraq?

These questions, you may say, rest on an absurd premise: Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein cannot ever hope to defeat and occupy the United States. Yes, but that is true only because the United States maintains and employs an armed force sufficient to defeat those who would defeat it. If the United States did as the pacifists wish — if it eschewed war even when attacked — it would, at some point, be conquered by a foreign regime. What stops this from happening is that the government and generally the people of the United States do not heed the wishes of the pacifists.

The anti-warriors must know that their position is a luxury made affordable only by the sure bet that no one in authority will ever accede to their position. The marchers and shouters and flag-burners in Washington pretended to the argument that war should not be waged. What they really mean is that war should not be waged by them. It should be waged by other mothers’ sons and daughters.

How many pacifists would be willing to accept the logical outcome of their creed of nonviolence even in face of attack — life as a conquered people? Not many, I would think. How many want the (mostly lower-class) men and women of the United States armed forces to continue to fight so that they may enjoy the luxury of preaching against fighting? Nearly all, I would think.

Liars. Frauds. Hypocrites. Strong letters, no doubt, to follow.

Michael Kelley is the editor of Atlantic Monthly magazine and a graduate of the University of New Hampshire.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
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To: Poohbah
A humanitarian is always a hypocrite, and Kipling's understanding of this is perhaps the central secret of his power to create telling phrases. It would be difficult to hit off the one-eyed pacifism of the English in fewer words than in the phrase, "making mock of uniforms that guard you while you sleep." ... He sees clearly that men can only be highly civilised while other men, inevitably less civilised, are there to guard and feed them.

-- Orwell, Rudyard Kipling.

41 posted on 10/04/2001 6:07:41 AM PDT by dighton
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: GailA
Not only are they the gun grabers, they are the eco terrorist, and pro-abortion baby killers.

Yes either way the pacifists should be easy to defeat. If they are sincere, they've given up their guns, don't use transportation that uses oil products (so they walk or ride bikes so are very limited in where they can go), and they wouldn't fight back anyhow so it's okay whatever someone does to them. If they aren't sincere then they don't deserve to use a pacifism label to further their communist agenda and can be seen as the enemies of the US that they really are.

43 posted on 10/04/2001 6:16:57 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: G.Mason
From "Dear Tabby" (not G.Mason):"Let's roll...over laughing. We already are a conquered people. We pay half our income in taxes -- we can't even speak freely on "Free" Republic, a private forum! What a joke. Anybody here vote for affirmative action? For "hate" crimes? For open borders? For $100 billion to Israel? Yeah, we're free all right. Free to agree with the going Big Lie, and that's about it. Be careful morons, "loose lips sink ships." I can just picture Osama out there now, wiping his ass with his left hand, tapping his palm pilot with his right so he can get the latest military secrets from Free Republic jackasses. Yes, by "jackass" I do mean you reading this. In what sense are you free, moron? You aren't -- you don't have any idea what freedom is."

I do hope one day to leave my pathetic mire of intellectual vacancy and rise to your godlike lofty heights of half-thoughts combined with venomous cynicism. please... PLEASE!!! Your staggering intellect is our only hope! HELP US ALL!!!

44 posted on 10/04/2001 6:19:06 AM PDT by 70times7
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To: 2Trievers
How do you attach legitimacy and desirability to an idea? You slip the anti-idea in as advocated by a hated group.

Globalism. This article has some razor edges hidden with honey.

45 posted on 10/04/2001 6:20:11 AM PDT by William Terrell
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To: Dear Tabby
I almost forgot... please see #44, above.

(I'll try to do better next time. After all, I AM a moron)...or would that be a Slave moron of our imperialist state... I'm just so confused!

46 posted on 10/04/2001 6:27:34 AM PDT by 70times7
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: 2Trievers
"How many pacifists would be willing to accept the logical outcome of their creed of nonviolence even in face of attack — life as a conquered people? Not many, I would think."

The author doesn't know the pacifists very well. They love submission and misery. It's their handlers that don't.

48 posted on 10/04/2001 6:40:57 AM PDT by spunkets
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To: FITZ
I don't think these clowns are really pacifists. I believe they are really and sincerely hell bent on destroying the USA. I believe they will use any means to accomplish this task. I believe they use these "peace marches" and other nonsense to undermine our credibility, and to plant seeds of doubt in the minds of the weak among us. I believe if the truth be known, they would do ANYTHING, including killing of innocent people, to accomplish this task. With these people, the end justifies the means. Any weapon, even the appearance of pacifism to undermine national morale, is fair game.
49 posted on 10/04/2001 6:42:27 AM PDT by wjcsux
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator

To: 2Trievers
Do they wish to live in a United States that has been defeated by any foreign force? Do they wish to live under an occupying power?

The author ought to choose his words more carefully. Who exactly is occupying whom? Where are those Muslim bases? Troops? And where are ours? If he wants to know how people like to live under an occupying power, he ought to ask the Middle East.

51 posted on 10/04/2001 6:46:34 AM PDT by medusa
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To: 2Trievers
The author of the article should have given an example of life under the rule of the Taliban or the Baath(less) Party. For example, if your daughter just happens to catch the eye of one of the forces of occupation, she can look forward to: A full night of gang rape and torture, and if she's lucky, they'll shoot her in the head before dawn. If not, they'll slit her throat and let the vultures pick at her.
If your wife happens to be outside alone she can look forward to: Being shot on sight, or kidnapped and raped/tortured/forced into slavery etc..etc..etc.
I'm wondering how many pacifists would willingly accept having their wives and daughters turned into the whores of an occupation force.. and seeing that the 'norm' over there is forced homosexual sex, even their sons too. And lets not forget the castrati that the Taliban has created.
52 posted on 10/04/2001 6:50:04 AM PDT by Darksheare
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Comment #53 Removed by Moderator

To: Poohbah
There's another one attributed to Orwell that I'm trying to authenticate:

He is supposed to have said that there were some ideas that were so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them.

Regards,
GS

Oh, and welcome back.

54 posted on 10/04/2001 7:31:47 AM PDT by George Smiley
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To: 2Trievers
True pacifism is a rarity. The way to sort out these leftist/socialist scum is to say; all pro-choicers to the left and all pro-lifers to the right. The numbers to the right might now be counted on one hand.
55 posted on 10/04/2001 7:34:55 AM PDT by ThomasMore
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To: Lee'sGhost

>OK, I'll bite. I looked up "bellicism," possible roots, 
>and variant spellings in two different dictionaries and 
>found nothing. What the hell does it mean? 

It is not a word in common usage.

It is, however, a word--the Linguistically Correct and precise antonym of pacifism.

56 posted on 10/04/2001 7:35:26 AM PDT by Benoit Baldwin
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To: 2Trievers
Anybody see the debate between Bill O'Reilly and Phil Donohue? Phil is anti-war and showed himself to be a complete idiot. Bill presented himself logically and with great reason.

It may be safe to say that those pacifist folks are really apathetic to the safety and needs of this great land.

imho

57 posted on 10/04/2001 7:47:04 AM PDT by homeschool mama
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To: babyfreep
Oh heavens! Those *ilk* have their head in the sand chanting *can't we all just get along*? I'm convinced they have no reasoning ability.

But when confronted with losing their freedoms or lives they'd run behind the big man with a gun pleading for protection.

58 posted on 10/04/2001 7:50:32 AM PDT by homeschool mama
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To: ThomasMore
You bring up an interesting point, TM.

Those who preach their anti-war rhetoric are most assuradely pro-choice. It seems odd they don't want death for enemies but they DO want death for the innocent. Hmmmm....

59 posted on 10/04/2001 8:00:40 AM PDT by homeschool mama
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To: homeschool mama
Yeah, sort of reminds me of what my husband told me (think he read it on FR) where the elite liberal couple moves into one of those upstairs studio apts. "in the ghetto", expecting to "mix" well with the locals.
Upon moving in, much of their stuff is left stupidly unattended at different times on the street. Of course, it disappears and they are flabbergasted.
("What's up???? You can't steal from us. Don't you know we're one of you guys???")
60 posted on 10/04/2001 8:07:00 AM PDT by babyfreep
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