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How many preaching pacifism would accept life as a conquered people?
Union Leader ^ | Oct 04, 2001 | Michael Kelly

Posted on 10/04/2001 2:03:10 AM PDT by 2Trievers

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To: Lee'sGhost
It basically means a belief in war, or the opposite of pacifism (belief in peace). The use of such an fartful phrase just confirms that the writer is a product of your typical liberal arts education and therefore to be totally ignored.
61 posted on 10/04/2001 8:10:10 AM PDT by katana
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To: medusa

The author ought to choose his words more carefully. Who exactly is occupying whom? Where are those Muslim bases? Troops? And where are ours?

Agreed. This reads like a high school essay, and was surely only published becuase the hysteria of our time demands more hysterical pulp to feed itself. I think I am going to have a year-long barf attack before this whole thing is over.

62 posted on 10/04/2001 8:17:12 AM PDT by Zviadist
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To: katana
ROFLOL! so true.
63 posted on 10/04/2001 8:17:24 AM PDT by homeschool mama
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To: 2Trievers


Peice of the Dead...

64 posted on 10/04/2001 8:21:01 AM PDT by bluetoad
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To: 2Trievers
Clearly if we are attacked we must fight, and if we are called up we should go. Pacifism doesn't work. Non-violent resistance can work, if your adversary is not wholly without moral scruples, but it's no way to resist foreign attacks -- rather it's the way that people within or under a given state can win back the freedom or dignity they've lost. Better one acts when problems can be dealt with, than let things go to the point where the struggle becomes desperate.

But this is one of those articles that future generations will have trouble with. The basic point is correct, as is the argument against pacifism, but the argument is a little too overheated with the image of conquering armies putting us under their thumb. The other problem is that the martial spirit that flourishes in times of real crisis can be exploited later on in less justified ventures.

65 posted on 10/04/2001 8:39:06 AM PDT by x
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To: LLAN-DDEUSANT
I am very anti-war, but I have never been a pacifist.

I think the Jews under the Nazis are a good example of what happens when people practice pacifism. Then they need someone else who isn't a pacifist to come in and rescue them.

66 posted on 10/04/2001 8:39:38 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: Benoit Baldwin
bellicism, bel·li·cism (n) - A statement containing falsehoods with respect to the extent of civilian possession of firearms in early America.

See also Bellesiles, Michael.

67 posted on 10/04/2001 8:41:37 AM PDT by George Smiley
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To: Zviadist

>Agreed. This reads like a high school essay, and was 
>surely only published becuase the hysteria of our time 
>demands more hysterical pulp to feed itself. I think I am 
>going to have a year-long barf attack before this whole 
>thing is over. 

I feel your pain.

68 posted on 10/04/2001 8:43:04 AM PDT by Benoit Baldwin
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To: George Smiley
I've heard that quote, and it's widely attributed to Orwell. He PROBABLY said it--he was quite pithy when confronted with intellectual dishonesty or high-falutin' stupidity.
69 posted on 10/04/2001 8:43:47 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Zadokite
How can we have "free" trade with China for example, whose people are not free?

Ahhhhhh! But the governments are free (therein lies the problem).

70 posted on 10/04/2001 8:48:41 AM PDT by William Terrell
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To: 2Trievers
How many preaching pacifism would accept life as a conquered people?

Let me start with my favorite quote, it can not be repeated enough:

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
~~ John Stuart Mill ~~

Then a few words about "slimy" Donohue's (of junk TV fame) manic performance discussing how to respond to terrorism with Fox News' O'Reilly.

His pathetic emotional feel-good bug-eyed performance just underscored the mental vacuity in these people.
The satisfying thing about watching these losers rant is the certain knowledge that in any Islamic environment he and his kind would quickly fade into well-deserved oblivion forever.

I couldn't help wondering throughout the whole performance, how brief his pathetic rant would have been had he been debating the Taliban...

It totally escapes him that his ability to be able to mouth stupidity is made possible only by the response to evil through action and sacrifices of those he is attacking.

71 posted on 10/04/2001 8:57:02 AM PDT by Publius6961
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To: Zviadist
I still can't understand what happened at FR. I'm repeating myself on thread after thread, and I suppose I'll tire of it soon. But school's in session here, and between correcting work and pouring milk, sitting in front of the computer is good in-between work.

I simply can't understand the hysteria about the enemy landing on our shores. Is no one here aware that we have made the Middle East our bitch-boy? We supply Israel (really, we prop her up), we have landed and stayed in Saudi Arabia; we bomp Iraq with the regularity of Old Faithful; we armed and trained the Afghans we despise today; we fooled with Iran until they vomited up the Great Satan's waterboy; and on, and on, and on. What the hell are we doing?????????????????????????

72 posted on 10/04/2001 8:59:01 AM PDT by medusa
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To: 70times7
Tabby's problem appears to be one of style, not content.

The message is largely correct, but the rabbid-dog delivery has closed everyone's ears. - Tabby is right, how can a people who even pay property taxes call themselves free?

73 posted on 10/04/2001 9:16:00 AM PDT by editor-surveyor
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To: medusa
You need a real-world education.
Most of the stuff you parrot is irrelevant and totally explainable with the slightest knowledge of history and the psychology of conflicts.

I recommend a careful reading of Clausowitz's On War And Sun Tzu's similar book.
That you are moulding young minds with the level of understanding of human nature and behavior in countries other than our own is truly frightening.

74 posted on 10/04/2001 9:25:18 AM PDT by Publius6961
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To: Lee'sGhost
OK, I'll bite. I looked up "bellicism," possible roots, and variant spellings in two different dictionaries and found nothing. What the hell does it mean?

Self-styled intellectuals get to make up their own words.
Legends in their own minds.

I assume he meant "bellicosity" or "bellicoseness"
Twit.

75 posted on 10/04/2001 9:34:15 AM PDT by Publius6961
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To: medusa

>I still can't understand what happened at FR. 

Never misunderestimate the general level of ignorance in any one large group of people.

76 posted on 10/04/2001 10:17:59 AM PDT by Benoit Baldwin
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Comment #77 Removed by Moderator

To: medusa

But school's in session here, and between correcting work and pouring milk, sitting in front of the computer is good in-between work.

Thank goodness for the breaks you take here. Your rationality and dead aim is very much needed here at present.

I simply can't understand the hysteria about the enemy landing on our shores. Is no one here aware that we have made the Middle East our bitch-boy? We supply Israel (really, we prop her up),

What I cannot understand is those "conservative" pro-Israelis who scream "anti-semitism" as soon as someone suggests that welfare for Israel is detrimental to the country. Do they not accept that the welfare state has undermined the US socially and intellectually? So how is it any different with Israel? And someone who suggests -- as Netanyahu rightly did himself several years ago -- that Israel should be weaned off of US welfare is somehow "anti-Israel". Bizarre. I would think the opposite, but this world is upside down. I have stopped trying to make sense of all the contradictions.

78 posted on 10/04/2001 10:44:08 AM PDT by Zviadist
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To: 70times7
Re:"I do hope one day to leave my pathetic mire of intellectual vacancy and rise to your godlike lofty heights of half-thoughts combined with venomous cynicism. please... PLEASE!!! Your staggering intellect is our only hope! HELP US ALL!!! "

I wish you well.....but must you shout?

79 posted on 10/04/2001 11:41:30 AM PDT by G.Mason
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To: 2Trievers
God this writer is on a roll since 9-11. Let's Roll!!!!!!
80 posted on 10/04/2001 11:43:55 AM PDT by Nuke'm Glowing
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