Posted on 09/15/2001 12:11:44 PM PDT by Hebrews 11:6
THE NEW YORK ATTACKS WERE THE FULFILLMENT OF REVELATION 17 & 18
1. IT FITS THE SCRIPTURAL CONTEXT
The description of "Babylons" destruction in Rev. 17-18 follows the depiction of 28 judgments: the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets, 7 Plagues, and 7 Bowls (Rev. 6-16), so the natural presumption is that it must follow them in time. Since those judgments have not yet occurred, it seems logical to conclude that this event must still lie in the future. However, a closer reading suggests just the opposite: that the destruction of Babylon precedes these judgments. There are two reasons:
(1) Internal Timing Clues
In Rev. 18 an angel announces, "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the great!" A description of Babylons fall follows. However, the same event is described earlier in Rev. 14:8, where an angel makes exactly the same announcement. Note that both are given in the past tense: Babylon is already fallen. The first-occurring reference, in chapter 14, comes before the Plague and Bowl judgments, and we are not told how far back it refers, only that it is already accomplished. Thus, the placement of the narrative describing Babylons fall, coming after the judgments, is not indicative of its actual occurrence in time. Indeed, the Bible does not seem to place it in time at all, beyond a general indication that it occurs as part of the end-times.
(2) Lack of Reference to the Judgments
Nowhere in chapters 17-18 is there anything that suggests that any of the judgments have already occurred. However, the severity and omnipresence of many of those judgments, had they already happened, would be highly likely to cause them to be noticeable within the narrative. Instead, we see ships still at sea and the destruction of a booming trade in every conceivable commodity; moreover, immediately prior to its destruction Babylon is described as still being the epitome of luxury, which would be impossible after the judgments.
2. SYMBOLIC "BABYLONS" DESCRIPTION FITS ONLY NEW YORK CITY
(1) "Babylon" Is Surely Symbolic
The Babylon we see destroyed in Ch. 18 is a world-leading city near an ocean (vv. 17-19), which could not fit the original Babylon in modern times. Moreover, the author finds it necessary to identify which city (17:18: "
the great city that rules
"), which would be pointless if the actual Babylon were intended.
(2) The Specific Political Description Fits Only New York City
In 17:18 we are told, "The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth." This is a political description: Kings are the rulers of countries, and the only entity that even purports to rule over them is the United Nations, which is based in New York City.
(3) The Specific Economic Description Fits Only New York City
The extensive economic description in 18:11-24 fits only New York. It is the financial center of the world, housing Wall Street (NYSE, ASE, NASDAQ), and the US Dollar it controls commands the utmost respect worldwide. Thus, it rules over the merchants of the earth, who control the kings.
3. THE DESTRUCTION DESCRIBED AGREES
(1) The Timing Agrees
Three times in Chapter 18, in verses 10, 17, and 19, the destruction is described as having occurred in one hour. Note that the destruction took some time to occur: it was not instantaneous, for the text does not say "Your doom has come in an instant (or moment)." The two New York attacks came within one hour of each other (actually eighteen minutes apart; "minutes" were not used in Biblical times).
(2) The Method Agrees
The Bible specifies fire and overwhelming smoke (18:18), which certainly describes what occurred in New York.
(3) The Target Agrees
The target was the World Trade Center, the most visible New York symbol of international commerce. The entire last half of chapter eighteen describes the "merchants of the earth" and the economic devastation.
4. WHAT IT ALL MEANS
The 28 judgments described in Revelation 6-16 have a specific purpose: to warn people that this is their last chance to turn to God before the end. Many will finally do so. That is the context in which the destruction of "Babylon" occurs.
Gods people rejected Him, and Babylon was the agent God used when He finally expelled Judah from the Promised Land. As such, Babylon represents their rejection of Him. People continue to reject Him today. Instead of trusting Him, they put their trust in man-made hopes: "world peace" and "personal wealth." New York represents both. The United Nations is the most visible symbol of mans attempt to achieve peace, and Wall Street is the corresponding symbol for achieving material wealth and comfort.
Man has been striving to save himself, rather than permitting God to save him, since the Garden. God allowed that striving for a time, but now He has signalled that that time is over. He demonstrated in one hour that those who trust in mans peace and wealth are without hope. He will follow with 28 more judgments, increasingly severe.
Heed the warning. God sent His Son to save us. You cannot save yourself--instead, you must trust Him. If you seek Him earnestly, He will find you.
Those who look for predictions in Revelations are just as dim witted as those who seek such knowledge from the quatrains of Nostradamus or the Mayan Calendar.
Revelations is a story meant to convey a spiritual message. It's not a step by step prediction of historical fact.
Babylon was first century Rome, not New York City.
Isn't everyone's?
Is yours outside your skull?
Gal, please don't tell me you agree that the WTC Towers are predicted in Rev 17 & 18. I can't bear it. You've been so smart on so many other threads.
I'm even afraid to contemplate how bad it would be if Clinton was Pres.
Could I order those in a sandstone to match the kitchen?
You are right, of course, but most [polus] will not repent because they are tightening their seatbelt for the ride down the broad way to destruction, having believed the lies of the false prophets and Nicolaitan overlords. So many refuse to hear and have been given over to believe a lie. So many say they are Christians but are really Secular Humanists rejecting every sign the Lord has sent and tearing out every piece of truth from their Bibles that they choose not to agree with. They have departed the faith in Unbelief and think they are under Grace...but doeth ought presumptuously, a sin unto death. (Num 15:30)
Good article at the top...a real pearl.
Re 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
That does not mean to depend upon a Sinner's Prayer said long ago followed by continuing to walk in sin. It means hear Him and do what He says.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: 15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; :16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Read all of Deut. Ch. 28. He raises up the enemies of God's people to bring judgment on them when they refuse to obey Him. Read also Jer. 50 & 51 and Is. 13 and Lev. 26:14-32. Rev 18 says "Come out..." The Lord is going to "utterly destroy" (charam) everything not "utterly devoted" (charam) to Him! We could do a discussion of Hot, Cold and Lukewarm, however, after yesterday, there should be no Lukewarm left in the land. Charam is from Jer 50 & 51 and means "destroy her utterly," "utterly destroyed" ... and elsewhere it means "utterly devoted" ... presenting a choice.
2763. charamIf that makes anyone afraid, it should instill a fear of the Lord which is the beginning: Pr 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. If anyone still thinks, "This cannot happen to me," then that person does not yet have a fear of the Lord or a knowledge of His will or of the Holy.
charam khaw-ram'
a primitive root; to seclude; specifically (by a ban) to devote to religious uses (especially destruction); physical and reflexive, to be blunt as to the nose:--make accursed, consecrate, (utterly) destroy, devote, forfeit, have a flat nose, utterly (slay, make away).
The Word of the Lord given through Scott Hofstee Sept. 3, 2001
The Word of the Lord to America
The Word of the Lord given through His servant Scott Hofstee
September 3, 2001
"So says the Lord of the Earth, this day. The judgment that I have foretold of through My servants the prophets, is at the doorstep. The devastation, the mourning, the death and destruction is at hand. To the nations of the Earth I say, the day of My fierce anger is upon you, behold what I do. I will begin on the coasts of your lands, the gateways to your nations with cataclysmic events, the like of which has yet to be witnessed by this generation or any other. I AM coming to the seats of power with a message of repentance the Earth has never heard before. I will use these final days prior to My appearance to all, to press out the wine from the grape, to gather the wheat from earth and separate and burn off the tares with unquenchable fire. The beginning of the days of My final plea with mankind are at hand. The striving with the powerful and mighty, who have thought higher of themselves than they should have, is here.
To the city of New York, I say, the madness of your city shall be revealed in a moment of time. The markets of self-adulation and self-exaltation are about to be shattered. I have sent messenger after messenger to warn you of these events, to call your people to repentance before I crush your markets with the fist of My mighty hand and yet you go on as though there will be a day of recovery and restoration to the glory of your past. I tell you this day, what is past is past, what is to come, is at the doorstep and about to come crashing through in a moment of time. One day you will be at ease, the next, people will be killing themselves and killing each other in response to the Rock falling on the tables of your money changers and turning them to powder. The cry will be deafening but all that will be saved will be the souls of those who fall on their knees and repent before the Holy One of Israel. The fire will burn up all that is temporal and of this earth but that which is eternal will survive. Take heed New York, I will crush that lady that you have exalted above Me and drown her before your very eyes. I will have no other gods before Me and you shall not make a graven image and worship it as God. My fury is greater than you can imagine, My righteousness and justice purer than you can fathom. You will encounter it when you meet the ones I send to dispense My judgments on you.
To the city of Washington D.C., I say, your might and power are about to ripped from you like a home ripped off its foundation in a mighty wind. Your foundation is flawed, your leaders are liars and thieves and lovers of power and recognition. Messages of judgment have been sent and not heeded, now I come with devastation and destruction. The principalities of darkness that have been kept in check will no longer be restrained and will begin to unveil the most subtle evils and darkness the world has ever known. Those who have not known Me will not be able to resist it. It will make perfect sense to the carnal minded fools that have stored up treasures here on Earth and left their accounts in My Kingdom empty and unattended to. The masses will flock to the deceptions like moths to a flame, only to be burned and destroyed.
To the president of this country I say, you have fooled many with your unassuming charms and easy going mannerisms but I see your heart and it is not toward My will. It is toward yourself and your legacy, not My Kingdom. Your house is ordained for destruction unless you fall on your face before Me and cry out as Abraham cried out in intercession for Sodom and Gomorrah. Your ideas are vanity, your pride has ordained you for a fall and I AM coming to bring it to you unless you repent. Your place and position cannot be saved, your great city cannot be spared but your soul can saved as though by fire, so says the Holy One of Israel. To the leaders of the governments of this nation I say, when most of you read this, it will have already happened, the destruction and demolition of your seats of power and authority will be gone and you will know that all those crazy men and women whom I sent to you, were the sane ones, the ones who had indeed heard My voice and had carried the burden of the Lord to you. You will look upon these words and others and know that My heart was toward you and that it wasnt willing that any would perish but you in your pride and arrogance could not receive instruction from these messengers. They didnt look right, they didnt sound right, they didnt go through the proper channels. You will mourn the day you scorned these and you will know that I reached out to you many times before I brought My perfect justice and government to you and your people. So says the Lord of the Earth.
To the city of Los Angeles, I say, your glamour and beauty are a ruse. I see right through the glitter and pomp of your appearance. You have housed the filth of the fornications of all generations within your walls and have turned your eyes to it as My daughters and sons have been ravaged by the purveyors of all the imaginable filth of this worlds nakedness. You call yourself the city of angels but your messengers have been the messengers of your father the devil, the chief of fallen angels. You have spread your whoredoms on every shore of this earth and I AM coming to pull up your skirt and make you a shame before the people of the earth. When I AM done the people of the earth will burn with a passion to see your destruction and a fervor to rid the earth of the plague that you have become to its people. Your doomed, I have spoken it says the Lord of Hosts. I call to those with ears to hear to flee the walls of this abominable place while there is yet time, for I will burn this place with unquenchable fire. So says the Lord of Hosts.
To the cities of Seattle and San Francisco, I say, you are as Sodom and Gomorrah before Me. Twin cities of lust, greed, perversion and sorcery. I AM about to rain down fire and brimstone on you both in a way that has never been seen with human eyes. The abominations that have gone on behind the walls of your cities are the works of the most vile spirits the world has ever known and yet you applaud these works with admiration and recognition. You will be left as ashes as an act of mercy toward this world. For to allow your continued existence would be to allow a plague of unimaginable evil to continue unabated on the innocent of this earth. I have been long suffering toward you, I have sent you messengers time and time again who have foretold your doom and you have mocked and scoffed and killed these messengers. Now I tell you, the day that was foretold of you is here. The doom of your end is upon you. To those whom have ears to hear, I say, flee the walls of these places. I will guide you with My messengers, if you will but heed the Word of the Lord. If you do not, you will suffer the same fate that awaits those who have loved these cities and their abominations. So says the Great I AM.
To the people of this nation called America, I say, you have thought you were exempt from what is to come, you have seen these things in other places but now they are coming to your shores. You dont have the leaders to guide you through these storms, you dont have the foundations necessary to bear the weight of the truth that is coming to you. Your shepherds have preached to you lies in My name, telling of an escape of the things that are to come to this world. They have spoken of an inheritance that is never fought for, never paid for and never existed in My Kingdom. Those who will rule and reign with Me will be those who have overcome by the Word of their testimony and the blood of the Lamb. They will be those who did not love their lives unto death. They will be those who forsook the delicacies of this world in order to gain the knowledge of Me. To be an overcomer will require that you know Me and die to the natural life of this world. Hate the evil that reigns here and no longer turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to the weak and forsaken of this world. You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind and all your soul. You must forsake this world and enter into My world, which is world of righteousness, joy and peace in the Most Holy Spirit.
I AM coming with a heavy hand against the shepherds that have led My sheep astray with half truths and the doctrines of men. You have loved your denominations more than you have loved Me. You have loved your salaries and accolades more than you have loved My truth. Your hearts have failed you for fear because you have not had the heart of the Good Shepherd. Your days of repentance will be sorrowful days, if indeed you do repent at all. Many will flee to their father the devil and be exposed as the antichrists they have truly been all along. This is what is to come America, this is a glimpse in part to warn you and prepare you. Most of all, it is the Word of the Lord that will bear witness against you when these things suddenly happen and you ask why they did. So says Jehovah, the creator of the whole Earth, the Holy One of Israel."
Lu 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
The style that Revelations is written in is known as apocolyptic. The word revelation is interchangable with the word apocolypse.
This is a highly symbolic kind of literature, penned at a time when the Roman authorities were starting to enforce the "cult of emperor worship". Taken in this historical context, the Preterist view makes the most sense and is the traditional interpretation. If, you however choose to ignore that the writter addresses the book to the seven churches in the province of Asia, then you can arrive at the other 3 interpretations.
The symbolism is used to obscure the message of warning that John(exiled to the isle of Patmos, a Roman penal colony)is sending to the churches of Asia Minor, to prepare them for the coming opposition and increasing hostility. The Babylon symbolism was a reference to the Roman Empire. The city on the seven hills is Rome.(described by Cicero, Virgil, and Martial)I read years ago that 666 can even be "decoded" into Nero Cesar ...etc.
A good commentary for each of the points of view is available and recommended, and the further you get from the traditional view, the more you have to contort the symbolism(and the context) to fit the interpretation.
I read the link above provided by The Bard. Some of these answers came to mind as I read it:
Link says: It has been said that the United States is Babylon of Revelation 18. Recognizing that Babylon is a city, not a country, it is further qualified that the U.S. is represented by its financial center, New York City. We now see that in order to really link the description given to us in Chapter 18, we must further narrow Babylon down to a few specific office buildings, while overlooking the fact that trading has resumed, albeit without the full services of a few significant investment firms. But all of their data was backed up thanks to Y2K fear upgrades
Link says: Verse 23 states that by the sorceries of this Babylon "were all nations deceived." In what way were all nations deceived?
Might be our greatest exports: entertainment, abortion, child pornography. We export entertainment most of which contains blasphemy, spiritual whoredom, fornication, bestiality, etc. Abortion: Planned Parenthood preys on poor countries and Planned Parenthood says they don't perform abortions, they just counsel women (wink, wink) and Christians continue shopping at stores that help fund Planned Parenthood. Trauma Ward in Vietnam
Link says: Verse 24: "And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth." Does this describe New York or the U.S.A.? No, it does not.
The U.S. and many of its churches send "Christian" ambassadors like the National Council of Churches (how many millions of dollars did American churches contribute to NCC in the past years?) so that those "reverends" can enable dictators to continue oppressing and killing Christians with no impunity.
Christians shop at stores for cheap consumer goods from China without even pausing to think that most of those goods are through forced labour of Christians. A new very revolting trend is to walk into a Christian bookstore or Christian giftstore and find almost everything made in China.
I heard the bells on Christmas Day
And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever; that considering numbers, nature and natural means only, a revolution of the wheel of fortune, an exchange of situation is among possible events; that it may become probably by supernatural interference! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in such a contest. But it is impossible to be temperate and to pursue this subject through the various considerations of policy, of morals, of history natural and civil. We must be contented to hope they will force their way into everyone's mind. I think a change already perceptible since the origin of the present revolution. Thomas Jefferson
Hehe -- I'm glad I'm not the only one who, when he sees a dozen flaming replies to a post that's already missing, thinks to himself, "damn, what'd I miss??"
you are all like a pack of filty foaming dogs. my friend should have known not to throw god's word before pigs and dogs. you will know monday though, will you not?
st huckleberry
You'll forgive me if I don't take being called "dog" seriously from someone named "st huckleberry."
Where's Bobba Louie?
Perhaps you should consider a more stable for of hermeneutics and eschatology before you go off on rants like this.
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If you think God loves you too much to let you suffer YOU HAVE BELIEVED A LIE and you do not KNOW Him, you do not UNDERSTAND His ways and you do not believe His acts even though you see them with your own eyes. You are an UNBELIEVER even though you may think of yourself as a Christian, or a Jew.
It is precisely because God loves America that He has just given this nation a FINAL WARNING. Look at what got smashed down, two HIGH PLACES erected to the god of mammon, and a place in WDC errected to the god of forces, the Pentagon. What got hit hardest was the PRIDE of the nation and PRIDE was the sin of Sodom. Americans are proud of their money and power and equate these with righteousness but God say, "If you call yourselves My people, act like it, and if you love Me, keep my commandments" but the U.S.S.C. just threw out the commandments of God on the anniversary of the day God gave them to Moses. How stupid!
America has broken the first and greatest commandment and God has quite simply had enough of it. Look, read this and begin to understand His ways, and look around to see His acts, if you can receive it.
Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
Le 26:14 (KJV) But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;
15 And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:
16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.
18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
19 And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:
20 And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits.
21 And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.
22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.
23 And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;
24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
26 And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied.
27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;
28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.
30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
31 And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours.
Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.
6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
Anyone who cannot see the hand of God in this attack upon America is a blind fool, wilfully blind and utterly deserving of what is coming down next. The signs have been there for years. Look at verse 17 for example "They that hate you shall reign over you". Do you think the Clintons love you? Fascist government; treason; anti-Christian government; homosexuality; abortion; polluted justice; the oppression of women and children; these are the fruits of a nominally Christian country which has BROKEN COVENANT with the Most High God. REPENT America, REPENT Babylon America, REPENT Sodom America, REPENT! for The Day of the Lord is at Hand.
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