Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Physics looks for new Einstein as nature rewrites laws of universe
Times Newspapers Ltd. ^ | September 9 2001 | Jonathan Leake

Posted on 09/09/2001 1:05:44 PM PDT by telos

A GROUP of astronomers and cosmologists has warned that the laws thought to govern the universe, including Albert Einstein's theory of relativity, must be rewritten. The group, which includes Professor Stephen Hawking and Sir Martin Rees, the astronomer royal, say such laws may only work for our universe but not in others that are now also thought to exist. "It is becoming increasingly likely that the rules we had thought were fundamental through time and space are actually just bylaws for our bit of it," said Rees, whose new book, Our Cosmic Habitat, is published next month. "Creation is emerging as even stranger than we thought." Among the ideas facing revision is Einstein's belief that the speed of light must always be the same - 186,000 miles a second in a vacuum. There is growing evidence that light moved much faster during the early stages of our universe. Rees, Hawking and others are so concerned at the impact of such ideas that they recently organised a private conference in Cambridge for more than 30 leading cosmologists. Cosmology - the study of the origins and future of our universe - became popular in the early 20th century for physicists who wanted to think the unthinkable about creation. Einstein's theory of relativity, which describes how gravity controls the behaviour of our universe, was one of cosmology's greatest triumphs. But Einstein said there was an even deeper issue, which he described as whether God had any choice. In other words, could the laws that governed the way our universe formed after the big bang have worked any differently? He concluded that they could not. In the past 40 years, however, the increasing power of astronomical instruments has turned cosmology from a theoretical science into a practical one and forced scientists to re-examine Einstein's conclusions. Among the most striking claims is that our universe only exists because of a fine balance between several crucial factors. One is the rate at which nuclear fusion releases energy in stars such as the sun by squashing hydrogen atoms into helium and then other elements. Astronomers have found that exactly 0.7% of the mass of the hydrogen is converted into starlight and that if this figure had been just a fraction different then carbon and other elements essential to life could never have formed. Another puzzle is the so-called "smoothness" of our universe, by which astronomers mean the distribution of matter and radiation. In theory, the big bang could have produced a universe where all the matter clumped together into a few black holes, or another in which it was spread out evenly, forming nothing but a thin vapour. "It could be that the laws that govern our universe are unchangeable but it is a remarkable coincidence that these laws are also exactly what is needed to produce life," said Rees. "It seems too good to be true." What he, Hawking and others such as Neil Turok, professor of maths and physics at Cambridge, are now looking at is the idea that our universe is just one of an infinite number of universes, with different laws of nature operating in each. Some universes would have all their matter clumped together into a few huge black holes while others would be nothing more than a thin uniform freezing gas. However, Hawking and his colleagues increasingly disagree over how this "multiverse" could work. At the conference Hawking dismissed the idea of a series of big bangs on the grounds that it extended into the infinite past and so could never have a beginning.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: space; stringtheory; tinfoilhat
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 201-204 next last
To: PatrickHenry, longshadow
I have long thought that "c" was just the limit to the transfer of information by the EM spectrum. If you were to exceed light of light, objects before you would fade to the UV, then black, while objects to your rear would fade to IR before turning black.
61 posted on 09/09/2001 8:00:02 PM PDT by rightofrush
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: headsonpikes
Good metaphor...do you think there is any significant isomorpism between them?

No, I don't see how there would be.

62 posted on 09/09/2001 8:07:04 PM PDT by Physicist (sterner@sterner.hep.upenn.edu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: StriperSniper
I gotta get glasses.....when I saw the word "Cosmologists" my first thought was why are we worried about what a bunch of hair dresser's think ?

Stay Safe....

63 posted on 09/09/2001 8:08:11 PM PDT by Squantos
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Ulmo
To begin with a presupposition regarding the speed of light

Perception of the speed of light in a vacuum does not change with motion of the observer. That is, if the observer is moving at nearly the speed of light, he will not see the oscillations of the light wave traveling alongside him as nearly frozen. The frequency or the wavelength of the oscillation will change, but not the perceived speed.

64 posted on 09/09/2001 8:10:34 PM PDT by RightWhale
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: telos
When I was a child I read in my schoolbook that the universe was 2 billion years old.

I now hear that it is 10 billion years old.

Wow, to think I have lived 8 billion years.

I wonder how old it will be by the time I kick the bucket.

65 posted on 09/09/2001 8:16:35 PM PDT by Nogbad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rightofrush
If you were to exceed light of light

No reason why not except we are made out of particles that are linked to photons, electrical and magnetic fields. If we can disconnect from that linkage somehow . . .

66 posted on 09/09/2001 8:16:37 PM PDT by RightWhale
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: Nogbad
You are travelling at the speed of light, and that not bad.
67 posted on 09/09/2001 8:21:08 PM PDT by telos
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: Squantos
when I saw the word "Cosmologists" my first thought was

Glad you you didn't 'see' proctologist!;-)

68 posted on 09/09/2001 9:37:03 PM PDT by StriperSniper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: Physicist
The Lord recorded for you the way the universe was created--separating water from water and creating space (Gen. 1:6). The ice above is what gives the universe its pyramid shape and is what closes the universe up in its finite space. THis makes laws possible. (So the universe is encased in ice.) Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Job 38:29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it? The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen. Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth? Exodus 28-40 is more specific about all this. As to the speed of light, it is not constant according to the BIble and never was. This has been proven, but forgotten for the sake of holding up Einstein as a god in order to promote relativity in moral standards on the assumption that it existed in physics. However, back in the 1880s light was "clocked" at over 200,000 miles/second... as we know it is now timed at 180,000 miles/second. But since all things in a closed system tend toward entropy, that includes light. (The Red Shift concept is not due to an expanding universe, rather a decreasing speed of light.) Anyhow, physics shows we live in a closed system and any thought to the contrary is alot of vain imagination.
69 posted on 09/09/2001 11:30:19 PM PDT by bryan1276
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: bryan1276
If you exceeded the speed of light you wouldnt see anythying. Why do you think that is? (It's pretty simple.)
70 posted on 09/09/2001 11:35:53 PM PDT by bryan1276
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: Physicist
We know that the total energy of the universe is zero.

Where does the energy go from photons that are redshifted by the expanding Universe?

71 posted on 09/10/2001 1:12:18 AM PDT by Moonman62
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale
If we can disconnect from that linkage somehow . . .

There's a great deal of disconnect going on around here. Some people are very good at it.

72 posted on 09/10/2001 4:26:16 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: Moonman62
Where does the energy go from photons that are redshifted by the expanding Universe?

It doesn't go anywhere. It's a Doppler shift. If you were comoving with the distant galaxy right now, you'd see the photons at exactly the frequency that the source sent them. If you were comoving with the Milky Way back when the photons were emitted, and were close to the source, you would see them as redshifted as we see them today. The photons haven't changed at all; it just that frequency depends on point-of-view.

73 posted on 09/10/2001 5:12:30 AM PDT by Physicist (sterner@sterner.hep.upenn.edu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: bryan1276
(The Red Shift concept is not due to an expanding universe, rather a decreasing speed of light.)

That is not a physically tenable position. There have been entire threads on FR debunking that hypothesis.

Anyhow, physics shows we live in a closed system and any thought to the contrary is alot of vain imagination.

It seems to me that that assertion redounds more to my position than to yours. I do not assume any "outside" to the universe. By introducing a tinkering creator, you have to.

74 posted on 09/10/2001 5:15:39 AM PDT by Physicist (sterner@sterner.hep.upenn.edu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: telos
I trust you don't think I agree with the manipulative Berry; I have faith the pursuit of truth will lead to God. At any rate, these scientific/religious/philosophic exercises move me toward faith. I am expecting no Heaven on earth

What do you mean by maniplative? I would love details. I have to friends who literally work with/for Berry(and either Brian Schimmer or Matthew Fox.) What do you know about Berry? My buddy gave my a book co-authored by Berry and one of the other two, and I couldn't get past the first few pages b/c it was so insipid. I am a bit of a physics buff (actually took several graduate level quantum and relativity classes whild I was persuing an engineering degree, and read a bit to this day), but my friends wouldn't undestand the implications of something like Bell's Inequality if it slapped them in the face...

75 posted on 09/10/2001 7:37:37 AM PDT by KayEyeDoubleDee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Physicist
This may be a silly question. It's been a while, but ...

Does we actually understand why the red shift exists? I remember talking to some physics grad students (I was a lowly math/physics undergraduate at the time) who said that no one really understood why there was a red shift, as opposed to the Doppler effect which clearly exists because there is a medium in which the waves are being produced, and against which the source moves. There is no medium for light, ie. no ether if you believe Michelson/Morley.

76 posted on 09/10/2001 7:43:32 AM PDT by KayEyeDoubleDee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: Physicist
as opposed to the Doppler effect for sound waves
77 posted on 09/10/2001 7:49:13 AM PDT by KayEyeDoubleDee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies]

To: telos
There is a very interesting book by Lee Smolin (a well known theoretical physicist) called "The Life of the Cosmos" that starts from the premise that (a) black holes are basically small universes of their own and (b) the laws of physics in a black hole are small mutations on the laws of physics in the universe surrounding the black hole. From this you immediately get a kind of evolution: survival of the fittest where fittest means laws of physics that have a lot of black holes. I.e., there are a huge, maybe infinite, number of different universes with different laws of physics, but the vast majority of them have laws of physics that cause lots of stars and thus lots of black holes. But this explains why our universe has the laws it does: the laws of physics have to be such as to make lots of stars, and that involves extreme fine tuning of the laws, which is then accomplished by evolution.
78 posted on 09/10/2001 8:03:11 AM PDT by Linda Liberty
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: parsifal
I don't believe E=MC^2.

Take a tour of Frenchman's Flat sometime. Or Eniwetok.

79 posted on 09/10/2001 8:11:01 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: KayEyeDoubleDee
The doppler effect for light waves is as well understood as the doppler effect for sound waves. Transmission of waves without a medium is well understood. A separate effect, the gravitational red shift is also well understood, following from general relativity.

Probably what you are thinking of is the question of whether the red shift observed in astronomical objects is due to motion of the objects away from us or some other cause, and whether one can reliably say that a quasar with a red shift X is really a distance Y away, as calculated from hypothesis regarding the origin of the cosmological red shift, and whether one can reliably infer that the universe is expanding at such and such a rate, is such and such an age, etc. On this it is fair to say there is considerable consensus, but some room for challenge.

80 posted on 09/10/2001 8:21:01 AM PDT by Linda Liberty
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 77 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 201-204 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson