Posted on 01/04/2025 12:29:38 AM PST by george76
Last-minute Biden regulations expected to cost consumers $450 more, one analysis shows...
The Biden administration finalized climate regulations to ban most natural gas-powered instantaneous water heaters—a move that critics say will drive up costs for consumers.
The Department of Energy—which formally published the rules the day after Christmas—didn’t issue a press release announcing the action, a departure from past appliance regulations. The published rules say the regulations are expected to help the climate by curbing carbon dioxide emissions.
Overall, under the regulations, roughly 40 percent of the new tankless water heaters available in the United States today will be taken off the market by 2029. Experts and industry officials say that will force consumers to purchase either more expensive or less efficient water heater models.
One industry analysis estimates that consumers will pay $450 more on average when purchasing new water heaters thanks to the regulations. And that will impact low-income and senior households, which are most reliant on the models targeted by the Department of Energy.
The move represents the latest climate-related action taken by the Biden administration in the weeks following President-elect Donald Trump’s victory over Vice President Kamala Harris. Trump has vowed to roll back a wide swath of the climate regulations issued under President Joe Biden in an effort to boost energy production and drive economic growth.
The new regulations also highlights how the current administration has targeted home appliances to reduce carbon emissions and drive a green transition to electric products. The Department of Energy faced widespread blowback in early 2023 after it targeted popular gas-powered stoves and has continued to receive criticism for rules restricting refrigerators, furnaces, dishwashers, and clothes washers.
"It's one more example of an appliance regulation that raises costs and reduces choices," Ben Lieberman, a senior fellow at the Competitive Enterprise Institute, told the Washington Free Beacon. "It bans an entire category of tankless water heaters and the ones that are most affordable."
"This is all part of the climate change agenda," Lieberman continued. "One of the things we see is an antipathy towards natural gas versions of appliances because natural gas is a fossil fuel and they want to electrify everything. When you see bad regulations from the Biden administration, usually it has something to do with climate change."
The rules apply to instantaneous water heaters, of which there are two types: non-condensing and condensing. But the rules hike efficiency requirements to a threshold that only condensing models can meet, effectively banning the cheaper but less efficient non-condensing models.
As a result, after the rules are fully implemented in late 2029, consumers will be forced to buy pricier models or cheaper non-instantaneous storage tank water heaters. Tank water heaters are less efficient than the models being banned by the Department of Energy.
"Our point has always been—I think that the incoming administration will understand this—why would you eliminate a higher efficiency product category? It makes no sense. It makes no sense at all," Frank Windsor, the president of water heater manufacturer Rinnai America, told the Free Beacon in an interview. "If you really want to impact the water heating ruling, you really need to deal with the tank models."
"As this administration is coming to the end, they have basically rushed to put this forward. But the fact of the matter is they're making a bad choice here," Windsor said.
Rinnai America, which is the nation’s only major manufacturer of tankless water heaters, stands to suffer from the regulations—the company recently constructed a $70 million 360,000-square-foot factory in Georgia to manufacture non-condensing gas water heaters for the American market. That facility employs hundreds of locals.
According to Windsor, the company unveiled its plans for the facility in 2020 after Trump’s efforts to boost American manufacturing. "When the rule goes into effect, all that manufacturing will basically be irrelevant," he added. "A lot of the major equipment that we've invested in will basically have to be scrapped."
The American Gas Association suggested in a statement that the regulations are illegal, noting that the Energy Policy and Conservation Act prohibits the federal government from banning a product with a distinct performance characteristic. The group noted that ongoing litigation related to the Department of Energy’s regulations targeting gas-powered residential furnaces may impact whether the water heater rules can move forward.
"DOE’s decision to ban an entire segment of instantaneous water heaters is deeply concerning and irresponsible," said American Gas Association chief counsel Matthew Agen.
This asshole can’t go soon enough.
The Department of Energy should be dissolved. Afuera!
Biden: Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Kinda cool.
Trump: Stroke of the pen, revoke your law of the land. Kinda cool.
Many homes were designed with only enough space to fit water heaters of the time. These new ones are larger and require more space. Therefore many people will not be able to replace their hot water heaters at all. People in mobile homes are really screwed because there simply is no place to make more space.
Yes. To start.
Democrats want people to freeze and starve.
Several Factoids
- El Rush-Bo was the first one to push the Rinnai Tankless Water Heaters
- After listening to El Rush-Bo, my six brothers and sisters and I all pitched in and bought mom a Rinnai Tankless water heater.
They are grrrrrrreat
You think Biden wrote up this edict? Obama’s people put the pen in his hand and pointed where to sign.
Our nation is affected WAY too much by these exec orders. We need to throttle down these fake laws by 90%.
I certainly pray so
🛐🙏✝️
condensing vs noncondensing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdIEnT9X0lg
Weirdly enough, I have been looking at tankless for a while now, and here’s what I’ve learned:
Gas (propane and natural gas) can handle twice the flow rate as electric due to the limitations of electric heating elements. Natural gas is the most economical to run, electric and propane being the most expensive (depending on your local rates). There is a caveat that gas/propane heaters need annual scale servicing and some cities require an additional capture device (cartridge) for the condensate which will need to be replaced periodically. Non condensing are cheaper to purchase but require double-walled exhaust venting because of high temps (expensive) but condensing can be vented via pvc piping as the exhaust is cooler. It is also said that while tankless may be more efficient they are not necessarily cheaper to operate. Limitless hot water means the teens will be more likely to take longer showers since there’s no cold water cue to get out. There’s also a temptation to return to hot water laundry instead of cold water, and, if you have an electric unit and the power goes out, there goes your hot water, too. You may still wait a some seconds for the water to heat and travel it to the point of use, so some people install mini-tanks at the point of use to compensate for the lag. The mini-tanks (2, 4 or 6 gallons) add to the overall operating cost plus the cost of adding electric outlets and water lines, etc.
Anything that ahole has done needs to be rolled back day 1 or 2.
Eff this loser and his equally scumbag minions doing this.
Eff every damn one of them.
The DOE doesn’t have the authority to make rules and regulations. Nor does the EPA etc, only congress does.
With the SCOTUS Chevron ruling last year this action may actually be law breaking.
On the opposite side, eliminating such illegal regulation may instead be aligning more with Constitutional law.
The problem is it’ll take a massive personnel force decades to unwind +40 years of unconstitutional regulation even though it can be accomplished with the stroke of a pen.
Meanwhile the White House is heated by gas…
It is time to play to win, the same way the Democrats do.
I wish he could reinstate all the death penalty cases.
“It is also said that while tankless may be more efficient they are not necessarily cheaper to operate”
I’ve run the numbers several times (thank you SmartMeter Texas). It comes out to about 50 kwh per month for an indoor 50 gallon tank being kept warm, with no flow (just losses through the tank walls). So about $60 to $90 per year (obviously much more in states with ‘free’ electricity - solar/wind).
Not a bad deal to have 50 gallons of hot water always ready after power goes out, or have 50 gallons of drinking water after an earthquake.
By the way, how much does it cost to have a plumber do the de-scaling (which is required to maintain warranty coverage, but only on tankless units)?
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