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Judge rejects delay on Trump civil fraud fines
Just the News ^ | 2/22/24 | Ben Whedon

Posted on 02/22/2024 2:00:40 PM PST by CFW

Judge Arthur Engoron has rejected a bid from former President Donald Trump's legal team to delay payment of the roughly $355 million in fines and $100 million in interest stemming from New York Democratic Attorney General Letitia James's civil fraud case.

"You have failed to explain, much less justify, any basis for a stay... I am confident that the Appellate Division will protect your appellate rights," Engoron wrote to Trump attorney Clifford Robert in an email CBS obtained.

Trump on Wednesday asked Engoron for a 30-day extension to pay the sum, asserting that "[g]iven that the court-appointed monitor continues to be in place, there is no prejudice to the Attorney General in briefly staying enforcement to allow for an orderly post-Judgment process, particularly given the magnitude of Judgment."

(Excerpt) Read more at justthenews.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 8thamendment; arrestengoron; arthurengoron; corruption; electioninterference; enemieslist; engoron; trump
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To: CFW

Look at this, he’s raised almost a million so far. Some guy just donated $10,000..........

https://www.gofundme.com/f/stand-with-trump-raise-the-settlement?qid=d676713d13a423d571d720097eae7436


41 posted on 02/22/2024 2:58:46 PM PST by GrandJediMasterYoda (As long as Hillary Clinton remains free, the USA will never have equal justice under the law)
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To: kiryandil
You wrote she said: I think that this is really an extraordinary unusual circumstance that the law-abiding and rule-following New Yorkers who are business people have nothing to worry about because they’re very different than Donald Trump and his behavior.

She did caveat with law abiding and rule following businesses. You’re saying they’re not?

My guess. A lot of accounting departments have been working overtime dotting i’s and crossing t’s to assure documents didn’t contain those types of misrepresentations. And corporate attorney phones were red hot with questions about exposure/risk.

42 posted on 02/22/2024 3:03:07 PM PST by joesbucks (It's called love-bombing. Claiming he's saving the world. This is a cult. Just back away. )
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To: thegagline

He still has to find a bank without NY affiliations.


43 posted on 02/22/2024 3:03:33 PM PST by VTenigma (Conspiracy theory is the new "spoiler alert")
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To: Bobbyvotes
Flogging would be nice...but unrealistic.I was thinking about financial penalties,or demotion or even dismissal in the most egregious cases.
44 posted on 02/22/2024 3:05:49 PM PST by Gay State Conservative (Proudly Clinging To My Guns And My Religion)
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To: kiryandil

bkmk


45 posted on 02/22/2024 3:12:02 PM PST by sauropod (Ne supra crepidam.)
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To: VTenigma
They're going to claim he got financial assistance from....

....wait for it....

RUSSIA!!


46 posted on 02/22/2024 3:13:11 PM PST by Bratch
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To: CFW

Judge...doubletap...


47 posted on 02/22/2024 3:15:12 PM PST by vetvetdoug
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To: CFW

How quickly was he ordered to pay?

Isn’t there any form of a grace period?

Thirty days for a sum this large seems reasoned. You have
requirements to gather this amount together. You don’t
just sit down and write a check for funds that do not exist
in a bank account all the time.

This judge knows nothing about how things work. He’s just
and airhead juvenile (essentially).


48 posted on 02/22/2024 3:16:00 PM PST by DoughtyOne (I pledge allegiance to the flag of the USofA & to the Constitutional REPUBLIC for which it stands.)
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To: joesbucks
I think you’re pissing in the wind there. There’s no defense against this type of prosecution except to assume — for disclosure purposes — an underlying asset valuation of $0 for everything on your books.

The most damaging aspect of this case is that every business owner in New York has been put on notice that the State of New York considers itself a party to every financial transaction in the state -- and one that will aggressively pursue civil cases as an "injured" party even if no harm can be shown.

49 posted on 02/22/2024 3:21:24 PM PST by Alberta's Child (If something in government doesn’t make sense, you can be sure it makes dollars.)
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To: CFW
Judge Arthur Engoron has rejected a bid from former President Donald Trump's legal team...

Of course. The "Judge" can't hurt his reputation any more than he already has among those who are not fellow haters. So why should he stop enjoying his hate to the full?

50 posted on 02/22/2024 3:27:56 PM PST by AndyTheBear (Certified smarter than average for my species)
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To: eyeamok
Re: "What is to stop President Trump from having all of them Criminally Prosecuted for Deprivation of Rights under the Color of Law, after he is re-elected??"

95% of the civil servant employees at the Department of Justice will vote for Joe Biden.

That's what will stop Trump.

51 posted on 02/22/2024 3:29:19 PM PST by zeestephen (Trump "Lost" By 43,000 Votes - Spread Across Three States - GA, WI, AZ)
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To: joesbucks
I'm saying she said what she was doing.

Because you're a Democrat apologist, you're pretending not to understand what she said.

52 posted on 02/22/2024 3:35:50 PM PST by kiryandil
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To: kiryandil
I just posted this to the thread you linked to.

I'm trying to piece together the various positions on this case so that I can understand yours. I expect that you will enlighten me upon reading this.

I'll start by posting the exact law in question:

SECTION 63 General duties

12. Whenever any person shall engage in repeated fraudulent or illegal acts or otherwise demonstrate persistent fraud or illegality in the carrying on, conducting or transaction of business, the attorney general may apply, in the name of the people of the state of New York, to the supreme court of the state of New York, on notice of five days, for an order enjoining the continuance of such business activity or of any fraudulent or illegal acts, directing restitution and damages and, in an appropriate case, cancelling any certificate filed under and by virtue of the provisions of section four hundred forty of the former penal law or section one hundred thirty of the general business law, and the court may award the relief applied for or so much thereof as it may deem proper. The word "fraud" or "fraudulent" as used herein shall include any device, scheme or artifice to defraud and any deception, misrepresentation, concealment, suppression, false pretense, false promise or unconscionable contractual provisions. The term "persistent fraud" or "illegality" as used herein shall include continuance or carrying on of any fraudulent or illegal act or conduct. The term "repeated" as used herein shall include repetition of any separate and distinct fraudulent or illegal act, or conduct which affects more than one person. Notwithstanding any law to the contrary, all monies recovered or obtained under this subdivision by a state agency or state official or employee acting in their official capacity shall be subject to subdivision eleven of section four of the state finance law.

In connection with any such application, the attorney general is authorized to take proof and make a determination of the relevant facts and to issue subpoenas in accordance with the civil practice law and rules. Such authorization shall not abate or terminate by reason of any action or proceeding brought by the attorney general under this section.

I bolded what I believe is the relevant phrases to this debate around this case.

  1. As I understand it, this law is a consumer protection law intended to protect the people from predatory scammers (e.g., phone scams, "found money" scams, IRS scams, computer lockout scams, false warranty scams, false billings scams, etc.). It was never intended to be interpreted to apply to negotiations between two business entities.

    That is why there is language about "in the name of the people," "restitution and damages," "award the relief," "schemes, deceptions, false representations," and most importantly " repetition of any separate and distinct fraudulent or illegal act, or conduct which affects more than one person." This would clearly indicate that the law was targeted to phone bank operations, door-to-door scammers, etc., who run the same scheme on person after person after person.

    We used to call them "flimflam artists."

  2. Regarding its application to the Trump businesses and his bankers, the law refers to "restitution and damages." Obviously, one would have to identify the damages, and determine who are the damaged parties to get restitution.

    For this law to apply to Trump, the meaning of the law would have to be turned upside-down: Trump becomes the predator, the banks become the scammed, and there has to be a pattern of repeated schemes to damage multiple banks via fraudulent misrepresentations. In order to accomplish this, it would have to be proven that:

    1. Trump was performing a "scheme" on the banks and was not following accepted business practices relevant to the industry or business sector.

    2. The banks were, in fact, scammed into losing money.

    3. The banks can identify the amount of damage and can be made whole via restitution.

  3. Regarding "directing restitution and damages," the law references all monies "shall be subject to subdivision eleven of section four of the state finance law." Let's take a look at the referenced section.

    11. (a) Notwithstanding any other law to the contrary and except as provided by paragraph (b) of this subdivision, no state agency or a state official or employee acting in their official capacity, may pay out or otherwise disburse funds obtained as the result of a judgment, stipulation, decree, agreement to settle, assurance of discontinuance, or other legal instrument resolving any claim or cause of action, whether filed or unfiled, actual or potential, and whether arising under common law, equity, or any provision of law, except pursuant to an appropriation. Such funds shall not be retained by any state official, employee, or agency in any fund held in the sole custody of a state agency for a period of more than thirty days but shall, consistent with section seven of article seven of the state constitution be deposited in the state treasury, or fund under its management as may be directed by statute or as otherwise directed by the comptroller with the concurrence of the director of the budget.

    (b) Paragraph (a) of this subdivision shall not apply to (1) moneys to be distributed to the federal government, to a local government, or to any holder of a bond or other debt instrument issued by the state, any public authority, or any public benefit corporation; (2) moneys to be distributed solely or exclusively as a payment of damages or restitution to individuals or entities that were specifically injured or harmed by the defendant's or settling party's conduct and that are identified in, or can be identified by the terms of, the relevant judgment, agreement to settle, assurance of discontinuance, or relevant instrument resolving the claim or cause of action;

    [skip]

    As a consumer protection law, paragraph (b) of subdivision eleven of section four requires that the judgement against Trump must be distributed as "payment of damages or restitution to individuals or entities that were specifically injured or harmed" as stated in 63(12) above. Who are these people? Has Letitia James identified who receives the restitution from the $350 million judgement?

    If James cannot identify the recipients of the judgement, it is because the law was misapplied and twisted into unrecognizability. I would argue that the fine of $350 million violates New York state law because subdivision eleven of section four of the state finance law prohibits the Attorney General from using this money for any other purpose than as restitution as a result of this judgement.

What say you?

-PJ

53 posted on 02/22/2024 3:49:34 PM PST by Political Junkie Too ( * LAAP = Left-wing Activist Agitprop Press (formerly known as the MSM))
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To: Fido969
I believe the deep state will pounce on the Trump campaign should he pay any of it.

I believe their end game is to charge President Trump with campaign financial malfeasance.
54 posted on 02/22/2024 3:58:29 PM PST by John 3_19-21 (Until we turn off the corporate media, good news/bad news, links, and references, they win. )
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To: CFW

We are not a nation of laws.

We are a nation of childish, vindictive, cowardly, greedy Democrat lawyers.


55 posted on 02/22/2024 4:00:02 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer” )
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To: CFW

They are counting on Trump never bring in power again.. They are counting on being high on the totum poke and never being held accountable for any of this.

If you know everything there is to know.. And if you know God looked around until he found a man who would go to the front lines for the people..a man who could take the fire storm and not waver. A man to trust.. A man to save our nation.

DONALD J TRUMP


56 posted on 02/22/2024 4:01:49 PM PST by frnewsjunkie
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To: Alberta's Child
The laws used in this prosecution have been on the books since 1956.

Its this type of crap, albeit mostly in the residential market, rocked the financial world in 07-08-09. We were incensed the big money people and banks were doing such things. Now we’re fine with it.

57 posted on 02/22/2024 4:07:20 PM PST by joesbucks (It's called love-bombing. Claiming he's saving the world. This is a cult. Just back away. )
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To: Raycpa

-Can he appeal this ruling without paying anything? This might have been a good tactic-

That is not the case. He has 30 days from the day the case was finalized to post an appeal bond and appeal in NY courts or pay the fine.

If he doesn’t do either; on day 31 NYC will begin legal procedures to seize some of Trump’s properties in NYC. The fine amount will increase each day with interest until NYC has legally obtained the title of the property and sold it to satisfy the fine.

His other option is to pursue in federal court that the law and/or the case judgement is unconstitutional through Article 8 which protects against excessive civil fines.

Of course, the case is completely outrageous and will be thrown out at the NY appeal court or the US courts and Engoron and Letitia know that but are making things as tough as they can on Trump until then.


58 posted on 02/22/2024 4:16:31 PM PST by bosco24
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To: joesbucks

Want a towel for the wind spatter, Democrat boy?


59 posted on 02/22/2024 4:18:35 PM PST by kiryandil
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To: kiryandil

If Engoron was kicked off the case, is there any guarantee that the NY judge who replaced him would be any better?


60 posted on 02/22/2024 4:19:49 PM PST by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Re-imagine the media!)
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