J.D. Vance says Ukraine will have to ‘cede some territory’

1ft.io ^ | 10 Dec23 | Ramsey Touchberry

[delta7]

Sen. J.D. Vance said Sunday that U.S. officials should accept the notion that Ukraine is likely to “cede some territory” in its fight against unprovoked Russian aggression. The Ohio Republican’s remarks come as Congress weighs more aid for Ukraine, with Democrats calling for additional assistance with few if any strings attached and Republicans trying to link aid to more funding to secure the southern U.S. border. “What’s in America’s best interest is to accept Ukraine is going to have to cede some territory to the Russians and we need to bring this war to a close,” Mr. Vance, who opposes more aid, said on CNN’s “State of the Union.” “But when I think about the great human tragedy here, hundreds of thousands of Eastern Europeans innocent have been killed in this conflict, the thing that’s in our interest and in theirs is to stop the killing.” President Biden has requested another $60 billion for Ukraine as part of a $110 billion national security package that also includes money for Israel and Taiwan. “On the Ukraine question, in particular, everybody with a brain in their head knows this was always going to end in negotiation,” Mr. Vance said. “The idea that Ukraine was going to throw Russia back to the 1991 border was preposterous. Nobody actually believed it.”

What we’re saying to the president, and really to the entire world, is ‘You need to articulate what the ambition is. What is $61 billion going to accomplish that $100 billion hasn’t?’” he added.

[Gaffer]

This whole controversy is exacerbated now because pro-UKR advocates want their cake and to eat it too. One the one hand they pooh-pooh opponents’ fears of this escalating to a nuclear confrontation and on the other hand have no qualms about fear-mongering with the scenario of Russia attacking Poland and other NATO countries. So dire that they warn of American sons and daughters going off to fight in Europe to protect it IF UKR isn’t given more money. Ridiculous.

Part of the reason for this starting is because NATO meddled and now tries to treat UKR as a member but IS NOT. Never was.

[MayflowerMadam]

Vance’s name has been thrown out there as a possible VP pick by PDJT.

I don’t know much about him. Have heard some very good things, and some very bad. Something about a bill he wrote, being a phony, etc. Have to do more research.

[BroJoeK]

delta7: "The Ukie war cheerleaders bought into Joe’s ( and Democrats) Russian Derangement Syndrome.
It infected many just before Trump’s election, and many are still infected with this sickness."

Sadly, the Old Soviet leadership was always deranged, that's why we had a 45+ year long Cold War -- to prevent lunatic Russian leaders from starting World War Three.

And one of those lunatic Russian leaders was then 39 year-old KGB LtCol Vladimir Putin.
He now rules over Russia and has announced his intentions to restore his Old Soviet/Tsarist Russian Empire.

Of course, many people today, especially those connected to St. Petersburg troll farms, keep their heads firmly buried in the sand, just as we did in the 1930s.

History teaches us -- the outcome today will not be better than what we got from seeking "peace in our time" in 1938.

[BroJoeK]

JonPreston: "I'm neither. I'm an independent Trump voter."

So you claim, and yet Trump himself has

1. Condemned both of Putin's invasions of Ukraine

2. Criticized Pres. Obama's failure to supply Ukraine with lethal weapons.

3. As president, Trump supplied Ukraine with highly lethal weapons which were key to defeating Vlad the Invader's "special military operation" in February 2022.

4. Trump has stated, accurately, the fact that had he been president in 2021 and 2022, Afghanistan would not have ended in disgrace for the US and Vlad would not have dared invade Ukraine.
   So there is no way that Trump considers Vlad's insanity acceptable.

5. Finally, Trump has promised to end the war in Ukraine quickly, by threatening Putin with nuclear annihilation and threatening Ukraine with the loss of all US aid.
   I don't know, it might work, or it might just lead Vlad to call Trump's bluff and Ukraine to fight on alone without us.

Bottom line: Trump has said he can end the war of Russian invasion in a day, while Ukraine's Zelenskyy has said it will only take him 20 minutes to explain to Trump why that won't work.

If you think Trump is pro-Russian, then you are as insane as Vlad the Invader himself.

[BroJoeK]

JonPreston: "NEW - Tucker Carlson, David Sacks, and Congresswoman Luna talk about Biden blocking a peace deal at the start of the Ukraine War, resulting in the death of hundreds of thousands of young Ukrainians."

I'll say it again -- nobody outside the Russian propaganda machine has confirmed such claims.

The more likely truth is that Ukrainians themselves rejected Russia's proposed peace deal based on Biden's promise to support Ukraine, "for as long as it takes".

We should also notice that Vald the Invader also rejected negotiated peace deals when he believed he could win more territory on the battlefield.

[JonPreston]

"One of the central ideas of Ukraine is to lie to yourself and others as much as possible. Because if the truth is suddenly revealed, there will be no country."

-- Arestovich pic.twitter.com/rSIwmzmwcV— Olga Bazova (@OlgaBazova) December 13, 2023

[JonPreston]

Paul A. Gosar, a Republican congressman:

“I oppose and have voted against every dime spent fighting a proxy war in Ukraine and Congress should not waste any more taxpayer money contributing to the death of Ukrainians or Russians," Gosar stated. pic.twitter.com/jl5nhOm9pr— Dagny Taggart (@DagnyTaggart963) December 13, 2023

[BroJoeK]

Gaffer: "This whole controversy is exacerbated now because pro-UKR advocates want their cake and to eat it too.

• One the one hand they pooh-pooh opponents’ fears of this escalating to a nuclear confrontation and

• on the other hand have no qualms about fear-mongering with the scenario of Russia attacking Poland and other NATO countries. "

Fears of escalating to a nuclear confrontation are partly behind the Biden Administration's "war without victory" strategy so far.
It's why we've given Ukraine just enough to keep fighting, but not enough to actually defeat Vlad the Invader's armies.

Your alleged "fear-mongering" that Russia will attack Poland and other NATO countries is simple reality, which any sane person can clearly see, including:

1. 5 million Fins who joined NATO, for the first time.

2. 10 million Swedes, also joining NATO.

3. 6 million Estonians, Latvians & Lithuanians.

4. 38 million Poles

5. 5 million Slovaks

6. 20 million Romainians

7. plus many others.

All of these people responded to Vlad the Invaders' "special military operations" in Ukraine with substantial increases in their defense budgets and with commitments to help Ukrainians fight back against Russia.

Gaffer: "So dire that they warn of American sons and daughters going off to fight in Europe to protect it IF UKR isn’t given more money.
Ridiculous.
Part of the reason for this starting is because NATO meddled and now tries to treat UKR as a member but IS NOT.
Never was."

The irony is that most Ukrianians didn't even want to join NATO until Vlad the Invader began his 100% illegal seizures and annexing in 2014.
Now, along with Fins, Swedes and many other Old Soviet Empire countries, Ukrainians all want to be NATO members.

And, de facto, in all but name, Ukraine is today a NATO member.
Vlad the Invader has done more to enhance and grow NATO than anyone else in history, including even Old Uncle Joe Stalin!

[BroJoeK]

JonPreston quoting Olga Bazova: "One of the central ideas of Ukraine is to lie to yourself and others as much as possible.
Because if the truth is suddenly revealed, there will be no country."

This is 100% typical of Russian propagandists, projecting their own mindsets onto their opponents.

Russian media personality and singer, Olga Bazova in 2022:

[dfwgator]

She’s got a good heart.

[BroJoeK]

JonPreston: "Paul A. Gosar, a Republican congressman:
“I oppose and have voted against every dime spent fighting a proxy war in Ukraine... "

Of course he did.
This is what the local newspaper says of their congressman:

"Reps. Andy Biggs and Paul Gosar are the proud Putin wing of Arizona's GOP"
Arizona Republic, EJ Montini, March 22, 2022

"Historically, The Republic has tilted conservative editorially.
It endorsed President George W. Bush in both the 2000 and 2004 presidential elections.
On October 25, 2008, the paper endorsed Senator John McCain for president.[8]"

The Arizona Republic Article includes this paragraph:

"First there was Gosar, speaking via prerecorded video at the America First Political Action Conference, a convention of white nationalists where the chant was “Putin! Putin!”
Organizer Nicholas Fuentes called the United States “the evil empire of the world” and added, “Now, they’re going and saying, ‘Vladimir Putin is Adolf Hitler,’ as if that isn’t a good thing.”"

[BroJoeK]

"She’s got a good heart."

💕💔

[JonPreston]

Jimmy Dore: Putin didn't invade Ukraine to start a war. He invaded to end a war. pic.twitter.com/bO5bOBTKCV— Hassan Mafi ‏ (@thatdayin1992) December 13, 2023

[JonPreston]

BREAKING:

🇩🇪 ⚡After Biden, now Scholz also announces war and martial law in Germany

Scholz statment:

"If the situation worsens due to the war in Ukraine, the government can declare a state of emergency in Germany and a state of war!

It's not just a war... It's about… pic.twitter.com/ccPi9WXO6K— Megatron (@Megatron_ron) December 13, 2023

[Gaffer]

You go to great lengths and trouble to try and refute what I’ve said - even reformatting it to fit your thinking mold. And you cite all this NATO numbers and prognostication trivia not yet happened. In the end, AGAIN, like all the other Zeepers here say, “your nuclear fears are irrational and insane.

Honestly, you just cannot STAND anyone not hopelessly committed to going down with UKR and you cannot STAND anybody disagreeing with this almighty NATO deism cult thinking. NORTH ATLANTIC, dammit.....how hard is that to understand?

Lastly, despite YOUR claim that UKR is a de facto NATO member, IT CATEGORICALLY IS NOT. That’s just wishful thinking.

In end neither you or I will agree because I didn’t lose anything in UKR and I don’t believe them losing or ceding territory will result in my children fighting Russians in Europe where everybody secretly agrees not to use nuclear weapons (because it’s and insane and irrational fear).....

What I do know is that when it does lose, there are going to be some awfully disappointed Zeepers here who will be going through some pretty serious postpartum depression.

[Monterrosa-24]

You appeaseniks so easily cede other people’s hometowns to the criminal bully aggressor nation.

Your policy thinking makes nuclear war more likely, not less.

The soft response to Russia’s invasion of Georgia led to aggression against Ukraine. The Russians are licking their chops over the next land grab to have a land bridge to Kaliningrad.

You must be so proud to stand with criminal Russia and its allies: North Korea, Iran, and Hamas. As for me I stand with my family and friends in the Donbas in their fight against genocidal invaders.

[Gaffer]

I’m not ‘appeasenik’ anything. I just don’t give a damn about UKR. Rather, it’s you America-world-police, America-world-savior advocates who are DEMANDING the US irrevocably weave itself into that war-torn rag over there.

You’re all about American ideals and saving the world from the big ooga booga Russian bear but when anyone expresses dissent with YOUR wants, they’re appeaseniks, insane, irrational or otherwise deficient.

Zeepers aren’t winning any friends OR influencing people in this.

[Monterrosa-24]

You don’t give a damn about a nation of 40 million freedom-loving people. That is as anti-American as one can get.

[Gaffer]

You must be so proud to stand with criminal Russia and its allies: North Korea, Iran, and Hamas. As for me I stand with my family and friends in the Donbas in their fight against genocidal invaders.

Spoken like a true UKR Zeeper ZEALOT. Wildly deficient logic that if someone doesn't care about UKR they are allies with NK, Iran and Hamas. What a dumbass you are.