Pence says there's 'no room' in GOP leadership 'for apologists for Putin'

To the people in Rio Linda, posting an article does not mean you agree with the author of the article or the content or any statements made there in. These are Mike Pence’s statements, not mine. And two, Jim Rob moved it to Front Page so he thought it was newsworthy too.

So Who in Hell is Pence?! He has no voice. VPs just sit and be quite until they have to attend a funeral.

WinstonSmith1984: "We told Moscow back when the Soviet Union fell we would not expand NATO..."

Noooo... back when the Soviet Union fell, we invited Russia's Boris Yeltsin and other Eastern European countries to apply for NATO membership.
So in 1994 they all joined a Partnership For Peace (PFP) process to prepare for NATO membership, including Russia.

Even after Vladimir Putin took control in Russia, NATO membership was still on the table, and he discussed it in 2000 with US President Slick.
In 2004, seven Eastern European countries joined NATO -- Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia & Slovenia.
Still, even after Ukraine's 2004 Orange Revolution, Russia-NATO relations remained positive, until Russia's invasion of Georgia in 2008.
This caused US President GW Bush to recommend NATO membership for Georgia and Ukraine, prompting Russia's first warnings against it.

So, 2008 was a watershed year.
However, Russian relations with NATO still remained somewhat positive, for example, as late as 2011 Russia and NATO participated in joint fighter exercises.
After Russia's invasion of Crimea in 2014, relations with NATO became almost entirely negative, even hostile.

WinstonSmith1984: "We ran a color revolution to dispose VLADs guy in Ukraine in 2014, that is not in dispute and well supported."

Again, you are confused & disoriented.
Ukraine's Color Revolution (Orange) was late 2004 to early 2005.
In it the 2004 presidential election was declared rigged and annulled and pro-Ukrainian Viktor Yushchenko then defeated Putin Puppet Viktor Yanukovych in new elections.

But Puppet-Yanukovych was far from finished.
In 2010 he won election as president and served until removed from office by Ukraine's parliament in 2014.
That was the Euromaidan Revolution against Puppet Yanukovych's veto of closer ties to the European Union, not NATO.
The result was an interim government and then Petro Poroshenko as president until 2019, when the current President Volodymyr Zelenskyy was elected.

I've seen no evidence that any of this was controlled or influenced by any non-Ukrainian besides Vladimir Putin.

WinstonSmith1984: "I am not saying that VLAD is a good guy, just that he is acting rationally. Try this on for size"

Over an hour of lies & nonsense? No thanks.
If Vladimir Putin were acting rationally, he would have applied for NATO membership, committed to a M.A.P. (Membership Action Plan) and become a NATO member in good standing.
Then ALL of his fears regarding supposed threats from Europe would have 100% disappeared -- that's rational behavior.

What Putin did instead was take a path leading to insanity and potential World War -- nothing rational about that.

WinstonSmith1984: "BROJOEK- you are referencing SNOPES which is a “Narrative Manager” not a fact finder.
The overall all vote is not the point, look at ALL the precincts that had more votes than voters... it comes out to about 750K over votes... not possible yet they certified the election."

I don't know who Snopes is, but the point of that quote is, your claim, that there were over-votes in Pennsylvania, is not an accepted fact.
Nor have I seen ANYONE in Pennsylvania challenge the findings quoted by Snopes.
So, you can claim whatever you wish, but so far as I can tell, it's all just talk, nothing else.

WinstonSmith1984: "BROJOEK- again we need to be adults...
Putin saw himself going the way of Khadafi, he likely is rational in his mind and in any case everything he did was predictable (Because he told us what he was thinking) ,"

But it's total nonsense! So you can blather about "adults" all you wish, the fact remains that Putin's most rational course of action was to JOIN NATO and thus secure forever his legacy as bringing Russia into Europe and securing Russia's western flank against any possible invasion.

What Putin did instead is utterly insane and there is no reason to excuse or justify it.
Putin turned evil, he became a little-Hitler now wanting to become a Big-Hitler.
And lest we forget, for many years Hitler himself was 100% rational, within the scope of his insane world views.
Indeed, to this day Hitler is sometimes credited with being a strategic or tactical genius in the war's early years.

So, for you to claim that Putin is rational is nothing, it's irrelevant, what matters is that he's made all the WRONG choices and now the world must pay the price for Putin's crazy.

WinstonSmith1984: "I am not defending him or his actions I am just saying that on the national stage he should have seen strength in the west and not subversion.
He is reacting to a combination of weakness in the west and subversion within his sphere of influence."

And still more babbling, irrelevant nonsense.
Boris Yeltsin left Putin with the path to follow -- NATO membership -- and Putin rejected that, chose his own anti-NATO path and now you want us to sympathize with the natural consequences?
I don't think so.

WinstonSmith1984: "What I see going on is that we are literally laundering money back into our political system through Ukraine which brunted the red wave and the cry of the American people to stop the insane policies which are literally killing us domestically and have us on the edge of Armageddon. "

So far as I can tell, those are nothing but words, often repeated like propaganda -- as if, the more often you say it, the better chance it has to magically become true.
But I've seen not one shred of evidence to support such wild claims.

WinstonSmith1984: "And add this to your thought bubble... President Z has outlawed political opposition and has taken over dictatorial powers internally.
(Oligharchs in Ukraine are mysteriously dying as well from time to time now)
Z is not a good guy he is a corrupt thug just like President P."

Again, wild claims without evidence cannot magically become true just because you repeat them endlessly.
I've seen no evidence -- zero, nada, zilch evidence -- suggesting Zelenskyy is more corrupt than Putin, or Ukraine generally more than Russia overall.
As for alleged money laundering, nothing generally known supports such claims.

And why? Why do you keep lying about Zelenskyy outlawing political opposition? There are many political parties in Ukraine.
Only treasonous parties are banned, just as they would be in any country in the world.
What do you think you're talking about?

During the Second World War, our President Franklin Roosevelt took on near dictatorial powers and crushed all opposition he thought could subvert our war effort.
But FDR did not outlaw the Republican party any more than Zelenskyy has outlawed his loyal opposition.

WinstonSmith1984: "Put me in the camp with John Mearsheimer, we led the Ukrainian people down the primrose path and they are being slaughtered because of it."

Rubbish! We didn't "lead" Ukrainians anywhere. They wanted independence from Russia and we did not prevent them.
Now they are willing to fight for their country and we're trying to help them.
My concern is: are we helping enough for Ukraine to win or just to delay defeat?

WinstonSmith1984: "BroJoeK it is not secretly controlled by Democrats, it is controlled by the uniparty and the cartels. What is happening in AZ..."

Sure, I can see your claims, but I've seen no real evidence to support any of it.

WinstonSmith1984: "Again, I appreciate your analysis but your arguments seem to be more focused on the flees on the elephant than the elephant in the room."

In the meantime, you not only ignore the real elephant, you ignore the room itself, which is Vlad the Invader invaded Ukraine!
That is utterly evil, unjustifiable and must be defeated, we have no choice.
If Putin succeeds in Ukraine, then there will be many more invasions like it and the world will revert to the empires of January 1914.
Today's 195 independent countries will be consumed in a handful of new empires and we will not like that world.
It will not be friendly to us.

WinstonSmith1984: "No one believes Joe Biden received more legitimate votes than any other President in history.
Why do they believe that... because they all saw real time voter fraud happen and it was in their face and Joe Biden told us he assembled the most diverse voter fraud organization in history."

Obviously, the devil is in the details of that word "legitimate".
Nobody really knew which votes were legit and which were not, if any.
And still, here we are today, over two years later and nobody knows any more than we did in December, 2020.
Many have researched and written books on it -- Fox's Molly Hemmingway is one -- all have said that Covid caused laws to be changed, perhaps improperly, to allow counting votes which would not be acceptable in other elections.
And yet, nobody has managed to overturn a single election as a consequence, to my knowledge.

What did happen is: for 2022, some election laws were changed and Republicans, here & there, have figured out how to beat the Dems at their own shenanigans.
And that might be the best we can hope for, for now.

And that just barely gets us to the next big issue -- uncounted millions of illegal immigrant Democrat voters.

WinstonSmith1984: "We need Russia as a balance against China and we have driven two powers together that can actually take down the west..."

B.R.I.C is more than two powers, it's four, and that's not even counting Little Kim and the Mula Mullahs.
Brazil, Russia, India, China have 40% of the world's population and produce about 25% of the world's GDP, with China alone accounting for around 70% of that.
They would certainly make a formidable force, though just their GDP and population numbers cannot make them unbeatable.
A united West, including the western Pacific, is still more than a match.

WinstonSmith1984: "What to do? "

I think I agree with all of that except Ukraine.
Ukrainians deserve all the support we can give them until they themselves decide it's time for a negotiated settlement.
My guess is the eventual pattern is the one we can still see today in Korea, 70+ years after the armistice.
And that could easily be long after the current generation of leadership in both countries has passed away.

I should mention something else -- as amazing as our Founding Fathers were, they did not, they could not, win the Revolutionary War all by themselves.
They had help, lots and lots of help, mainly from France but other countries too, including Spain and Holland, plus army officers & soldiers from Germany and Poland, and others too.
Our combined forces were too much for the Brits, powerful as they were, they couldn't defeat us plus much of Europe too.
And the lack of substantial foreign support is what doomed the Confederacy in the 1860s.
That's why we are today, as nearly always, what President Kennedy quoted in Ottawa in 1961:

BroJoeK,

I appreciate your points. Until the US secures it’s own borders and its elections we have no moral authority in Ukraine or frankly anywhere else... Our country has given up its moral authority by accepting rigged elections. The psychopaths running our country have power, but in the end it is illegitimate and everything we do will fail because of it... Right now the Government of the United States is at war with its own people. (The heart of the corruption is in the US Senate) Long story there. But until the US Government is reconciled with the people through free honest elections we are going to be staring into the abyss... all of us, the entire free world. (and are we really free when the government is corrupt and riggs elections)

Now you dismissed Mearsheimer, you dismissed all the other data I showed you that there was a Coup in Ukraine in 2014. You will probably dismiss Elon as well even though he put is life and fortune on the line to give Ukraine Star Link Coverage.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1629417851890159616

“Never get into a land war in Asia” I think the quote goes...

If you want to get me on your side, then we need a reckoning in the US on our elections, the boarder and the Biden’s/DNC/McConnell money laundering operations that has been going on in Ukraine for years. The corruption between the US and Ukraine is at the heart of the conflict. Cleaning up the corruption in the US is key to getting out of it. If we end up in WW3, we will be forced to cleanse the corruption in the US in order to survive but it will be at the cost of Billions of lives. Better to rip the scab off and get a solution before it’s too late.

Just because you stood guard in Germany for three years does not give you moral superiority over me pal.

I could point out my father fought on D-Day as a forward observer with multiple Bronze Stars and Purple Hearts to his name(which isn’t quite the same as standing guard) and I know for a fact he would be disgusted with your neocon fear mongering. How is that for your supposed moral superiority pal.

I also got news for you, Ukraine, is not the same as WWII. I believe Trump when he says it can be stopped in 24hrs if he becomes President again and that it never would have happened if the 2020 election was not stolen.

It would all probably end once all the biological weapon labs, human trafficking, neo-nazis, religious persecutions, rampant deepstate corruption and big time money laundering is cleaned out. Ukraine is not by any measure a morality superior country — in fact it’s probably one of the worst violators of morality.

Your hatred for Putin is obviously irrationally over the top in typical warmongering neocon fashion. For all the word salads you put up — you look like a deepstate paid shill and a joke.

In case you haven’t noticed because you’re so blinded by old Cold War hatred for all thing Russian, the petrodollar deepstate wants war because they need to distract people from their being exposed for their crimes against humanity. Hence, the blackmail files Z probably has due to Ukraine being such a corrupt moral wasteland, that he uses it as leverage to the tune of 100s of Billions of petrodollars.

“ War is when the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.” Ben Franklin.

It looks like you’re on the wrong side of history shilling for the old Cold War petrodollar deepstate government. Got news for you pal, more and more people everyday are figuring who the real deepstate bad guys are and deciding for themselves.

It’s time for you to let go of your neocon old Cold War mentality as it is currently supporting the flourishing deepstate government evil that is pushing everyone to a war the major majority people of the world do not want.

Evil flourishes when not enough people pay attention to what is really going on and do some real critical thinking and call out your fake and exaggerated fear mongering neocon garbage for what it is. Thus, I am now peacefully doing my duty trying to prevent the deepstate evil from flourishing even more by calling your propaganda garbage out.

Your posts are just a bunch of government neocon word salad garbage calling those who disagree with you unAmerican Putin fans.

I pray for your conversion on these matters. FYI, being convert does not necessarily make you an unAmerican Putin fanboy. Hopefully, you are capable of making that distinction to truly see the real evil within the current deepstate petrodollar system trying desperately to hang on to world controlling power.

God Bless!

Skywise: "Gotta love the paid shills on this site."

That is Skywise, speaking of himself, hoping you'll love him.

Rurudyne: "Learn more about history."

And that is your problem, FRiend.
You've only ever read German propaganda, you never read the actual history.
German historians themselves have researched back and found the old records which clearly show what actually happened.
And it was no accident, not in the least.
It did not randomly spiral out of control, rather it happened just as planned and anticipated.

After the June 16, 1914, assassination of Austria's Archduke Ferdinand both Kaiser Wilhelm and his high command wanted a war to punish Serbia for killing the Kaiser's friend & Sophia, his wife.
What the Kaiser wanted was for Austria to make a quick in-and-out of Serbia, before all the other European powers had time to react.
But what the German high command wanted instead was a general war which would launch their long-prepared grand Schlieffen Plan to invade France and Russia.

But the Austrians, especially Emperor Franz-Joseph, weren't all that unhappy about losing their Archduke and his wife, and they didn't want to risk a major war just to punish a few Serbian anarchists.
So Germans had to push, cajole and drag the Austrians into issuing their war-starting ultimatum of July 23.

Rurudyne: "The reason WW1 spread so fast was because of a system of alliances, commitments to enter a war, one that nitwits believed would prevent wars."

And those alliances would have prevented World War if the war was purely accidental, as has been claimed.
But it wasn't, instead the German high command wanted a general war and would not allow even the Kaiser himself to throw a last-minute monkey-wrench into their complicated machinery of war.

Rurudyne: "The reason why they were nitwits?
They assumed no rational person would want the war ... and completely neglected the existence of those who only wanted to light the fuse (AntiFa is a recent counterpart to those)."

German documents clearly show that war came because their high command wanted it, not because some random anarchist murdered an unliked (by the Austrian Emperor) Archduke.
Assassination was the excuse, not the real reason.

Rurudyne: "Germany did not cause WW1, France (that helped kick off folks entering into these alliances) was no innocent without guilt or aggression."

No, Germany and Germany alone did cause the First World War.
Everyone else -- Austrians, Serbians, Russians, French & British all were simply responding to carefully calculated German aggression.
From the beginning on June 16 to the end in August, the Kaiser knew what he was doing, though in the end he lost his ability to cancel orders for war. The German high command took that away from him.

France was only "guilty" of coming to Russia's defense.
Russia was only "guilty" of coming to Serbia's defense.
Serbia was only "guilty" of not submitting 100% to Austria's ultimatum.
Austria was guilty of following orders from the German High Command.
The German High Command, with approvals from the Kaiser, was entirely guilty of using the Archduke's assassination as their excuse to execute the long prepared and equipped for, grand Schlieffen Plan.

Rurudyne: "In fact the Kaiser was on his yacht when he was informed Germany was already at war."

Yacht or no yacht, the Kaiser was fully informed of how his orders were being carried out.
So there were no surprises when Wilhelm returned from his cruise on July 27.
The Austrians did not declare war on Serbia until July 28.
Germany declared war on Russia August 1.
Germany declared war on France August 3.
Germany declared war on Belgium August 4.
Britain declared war on Germany August 4.
Austria declared war on Russia August 6.
Serbia declared war on Germany August 6.
Britain declared war on Austria August 12.
France declared war on Austria August 12.

Curiously, as near as I can tell, neither France nor Russia ever declared war on Germany, and Germany never declared war on Britain, or on the United States.
Perhaps it was considered superfluous to declare war on a country which has already declared war on you?

Rurudyne: "And, yes, the system of alliances was designed to prevent things like the Napoleonic Wars, war of the past, and they caused the next war."

Those alliances didn't cause WWI, they simply helped the German High Command accomplish its purpose, which was to execute their grand Schlieffen Plan for war on two fronts.

Rurudyne: " in WW1 everyone learned one day that they were in a war because nitwits commit themselves to wars they don’t even know why they happened."

Nonsense. Once the German High Command figured out their grand Schlieffen Plan for war against France had failed, then they set to work concocting a counterfactual narrative to make themselves look innocent.
But they failed to destroy all the actual records and careful German historians were able years later to piece together what they had actually done to start the First World War.

Rurudyne: "Same with going to war because of sentimental notions about preventing aggressions based on past wars and cold wars."

More nonsense, because you can never repeal the basic laws of human nature and the First Law of Human Nature is: weakness invites aggression.
Vlad the Invader senses NATO weakness and sees his opportunity to aggress Ukraine.
If he is successful, Russia will absorb Ukraine and increase Russia's population and economy by about 1/3.
That will make Vlad's next aggressions all the easier, and defending against aggression all the more difficult for NATO.

In Orwells’s novel 1984 there is a perpetual war between Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia. Just substitute America, Russia and China.

“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.”

- Dwight Eisenhower, farewell address.

WinstonSmith1984: "Until the US secures it’s own borders and its elections we have no moral authority in Ukraine or frankly anywhere else...
Our country has given up its moral authority by accepting rigged elections."

That's complete rubbish, total nonsense! Nobody needs moral authority to defend themselves against foreign invasion!
We don't need any moral authority to help Ukrainians fight off Russian invaders.
"Moral authority" is a 100% mute issue here.
There's no complicated argument, there's no "on the one hand this, on the other hand that" -- none of that.

It's really, really simple -- Vlad the Invader invaded Ukraine, Ukrainians have 100% moral right to defend themselves and we have huge national interests in seeing Ukraine succeed.
So take your "moral authority" and shove it where the sun don't shine, FRiend.

WinstonSmith1984: "until the US Government is reconciled with the people through free honest elections we are going to be staring into the abyss... all of us, the entire free world. (and are we really free when the government is corrupt and riggs elections)"

And yet... and yet... life goes on regardless and the First Law of Human Behavior cannot be repealed and it is: weakness provokes aggression from bad people.
Vlad the Invader sees our weakness and aggresses Ukraine.
If Vlad is successful, the Xi-snake will see his opportunity to invade Taiwan, and the list goes one.

WinstonSmith1984: "Now you dismissed Mearsheimer, you dismissed all the other data I showed you that there was a Coup in Ukraine in 2014."

What you call a "coup" is strictly hyperbole.
In fact it was nothing more than Ukraine's version of impeachment.
Putin's Puppet Yanukovich fled to Moscow, the next day Ukraine's parliament removed Yanukovich from office and installed an interim government.
Three months later new elections were held and pro-Ukrainians were elected to replace Putin's puppets.

WinstonSmith1984: "You will probably dismiss Elon as well even though he put is life and fortune on the line to give Ukraine Star Link Coverage."

I don't have a problem with "Elon", is he now saying we should abandon Ukraine to Putin's tender mercies?
I don't think so.

WinstonSmith1984: "If you want to get me on your side, then we need a reckoning in the US on our elections, the boarder and the Biden’s/DNC/McConnell money laundering operations that has been going on in Ukraine for years. "

But, FRiend, in all sincerity, I don't want you on my side because you are clearly politically insane.
Most of what you think you know is pure fantasy, there's no real evidence for it, it's all just wild narrative in search of some scraps of data to latch onto.
You're not trustworthy.

WinstonSmith1984: "The corruption between the US and Ukraine is at the heart of the conflict.
Cleaning up the corruption in the US is key to getting out of it.
If we end up in WW3, we will be forced to cleanse the corruption in the US in order to survive but it will be at the cost of Billions of lives."

I agree there is a long list of problems that can relatively quickly be corrected by a more conservative Republican congress and president.
But if you are waiting for the USA to become a perfect heaven-on-earth before you can support us, then you're no good to anybody, not even to yourself.

You cannot sacrifice good Ukrainians to evil invaders in the name of our "lost moral authority".
That is mind boggling insanity.

FranklinsTower: "Just because you stood guard in Germany for three years does not give you moral superiority over me pal."

No, but it gives me 100% authority to call you a liar when you throw the word "neocon" at me, FRiend.

FranklinsTower: "I could point out my father fought on D-Day as a forward observer with multiple Bronze Stars and Purple Hearts to his name(which isn’t quite the same as standing guard) and I know for a fact he would be disgusted with your neocon fear mongering.
How is that for your supposed moral superiority pal."

Now you're just lying about your father because -- like everyone of his generation -- he learned deeply the lessons of the 1930s and was determined never to repeat them.
Then there were no "neocons" in 1945, or 1955, or even 1965.
All of the Greatest Generation well understood that weakness invites aggression from bad people, and they knew we had to stand strong against it.
It didn't matter if your dad was Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal, they ALL knew that, it wasn't even debatable.

But now you want to exhume your DAD (!!) from his grave and and force him to start babbling nonsense about "neocons"??
I don't think he'd like that.

FranklinsTower: "I also got news for you, Ukraine, is not the same as WWII.
I believe Trump when he says it can be stopped in 24hrs if he becomes President again and that it never would have happened if the 2020 election was not stolen."

Putin's behavior in Chechnya, Georgia and Ukraine matches up pretty well with Hitler's in the Rhineland, Austria and Czechoslovakia, and our behavior matches well with that of France and Britain at the time.

And Trump's promise is the same one Dwight Eisenhower made about Korea in 1952 to get elected president.
And Eisenhower did stop the fighting in Korea (more or less) but he never actually ended the war which technically is still ongoing today.

Will Pres. Trump do better in Ukraine than Eisenhower did in Korea? Maybe, but a lot will still depend on exactly where are the front lines at the time of negotiations.
And that's what is being decided now.

FranklinsTower: "It would all probably end once all the biological weapon labs, human trafficking, neo-nazis, religious persecutions, rampant deepstate corruption and big time money laundering is cleaned out.
Ukraine is not by any measure a morality superior country — in fact it’s probably one of the worst violators of morality."

Much of that is pure fantasy on your part, but the real bottom line is this: whatever their failings, Ukrainians are vastly "morally superior" to Vlad the Invader's Russia.
In a ranking of countries by least to most corruption, Russia is near the bottom, western democracies are near the top and Ukraine is around the middle.

FranklinsTower: "Your hatred for Putin is obviously irrationally over the top in typical warmongering neocon fashion.
For all the word salads you put up — you look like a deepstate paid shill and a joke."

Says our paid Russian propagandist.
As for Putin, you're wrong, I feel no more hatred for Putin than I would for ANY megalomaniacal invader of foreign countries and murderer of tens of thousands of civilians.
And I don't hate Putin nearly as much as, for examples, Adolf Hitler or Joseph Stalin or Mao Zedong.
Putin is not in their league of evil doers. Not yet.

FranklinsTower: "In case you haven’t noticed because you’re so blinded by old Cold War hatred for all thing Russian, the petrodollar deepstate wants war because they need to distract people from their being exposed for their crimes against humanity.
Hence, the blackmail files Z probably has due to Ukraine being such a corrupt moral wasteland, that he uses it as leverage to the tune of 100s of Billions of petrodollars."

Yeah, all that is total BS -- it's fever swamp fantasies projected into psychobabble narrative desperately searching for any scrap of evidence you can claim supports it.
Your words only tell us that you have no serious grip on objective reality.

FranklinsTower: "It looks like you’re on the wrong side of history shilling for the old Cold War petrodollar deepstate government.
Got news for you pal, more and more people everyday are figuring who the real deepstate bad guys are and deciding for themselves."

When good people stand strong, aggressors stay home.
When good people look weak, aggressors come out and take over.
Always was, always will be and Ukraine invaded by Vlad the Invader is proof positive that human nature hasn't changed.

FranklinsTower: "It’s time for you to let go of your neocon old Cold War mentality as it is currently supporting the flourishing deepstate government evil that is pushing everyone to a war the major majority people of the world do not want."

And the same kinds of things were said in the 1930s and 1940 to keep the US out of Europe's affairs.
And the longer we waited, the bigger the war became.
You are the isolationists or Neville Chamberlains of our age, and remember please, those people were right for many years, until suddenly, almost too late, they were disastrously wrong.

FranklinsTower: "Evil flourishes when not enough people pay attention to what is really going on and do some real critical thinking and call out your fake and exaggerated fear mongering neocon garbage for what it is.
Thus, I am now peacefully doing my duty trying to prevent the deepstate evil from flourishing even more by calling your propaganda garbage out."

Relating the facts of history and of human nature is not "fear mongering" or "propaganda garbage", but ignoring those is deeply delusional, potentially suicidal.

FranklinsTower: "Your posts are just a bunch of government neocon word salad garbage calling those who disagree with you unAmerican Putin fans."

It is amazing to me how consistently anti-American are those here who defend and excuse Vlad the Invader's actions in Ukraine.
And you accuse me of being paid?

FranklinsTower: "I pray for your conversion on these matters.
FYI, being convert does not necessarily make you an unAmerican Putin fanboy.
Hopefully, you are capable of making that distinction to truly see the real evil within the current deepstate petrodollar system trying desperately to hang on to world controlling power."

Your words here are pure babbling nonsense, your deep self-loathing on display projected onto national and global issues. Because you loathe yourself so much you wish to sacrifice Ukraine on a cross to naked Russian aggression.

I think you need help for that, but if they pay you to say this cr*p, nothing will help you, FRiend.

Awww - did I hurt your feefees? Do you get paid by the post or by the length?

And yet we’re doing NOTHING in the US and letting our evil administration destroy this country.

What are YOU doing about that BroJoeK?

BroJoeK spews what we all clearly see is neocon garbage (he stood guard you know) and yet when one calls it out it hurts his feelings and he called me a liar. 😂

I pity him, just like Gollum is to pitied.

I will now just ignore this blathering neocon idiot.

BroJoeK. Here is the NATO secretary saying they have been in conflict since 2014... https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/incredible-nato-secretary-general-admits-nato-has-been-at-war-against-russia-in-ukraine-since-2014/?utm_source=featured-news&utm_campaign=usa

Maybe just maybe you could take a step back. Now if you’re Ukrainian, I get it. But from a US citizens stand point, we have allowed really stupid and naive people to take over our foreign policy and I am sorry about that... but following up bad decision with more naivety and stupidity will only get more people killed in the long run... Literally Billion of People will get killed if we don’t take a realist approach.

"Awww - did I hurt your feefees? Do you get paid by the post or by the length?"

Naw, because I understood you were talking about yourself, warning us to pay no attention to anything you post.

So, it didn't hurt my feelings and I appreciate your honesty in telling us that.

And as a paid Russian propagandist, you'd well know how you are paid, is it by the word or by the post?
Go ahead, you can tell us here, we'd understand.

😊

"And yet we’re doing NOTHING in the US and letting our evil administration destroy this country.
What are YOU doing about that BroJoeK?"

Well, for starters, nearly four months ago we voted in a Republican House of Representatives.
I know it's not much, but it's a start.

And we still have a majority conservative Supreme Court (Thank you Pres. Trump!) which took care of a matter that's bedeviled us since 1973 and cost the lives of something like 60 million unborn babies.
And I know it's not enough, but it took 50 years.

On the matter of changing election laws, I don't think that problem is solved, but also don't think we'll ever see another election like 2020.
And I expect we'll see much better results in 2024.

I see your problem, and some others here too, as, somehow you got captured by a weird hyperbolic fact-free narrative that paints everything in very dark terms, seeming to imply those justify extreme measures against our government at home and against our friends abroad.

So there's no way I'm buying into any of that.

FranklinsTower: "BroJoeK spews what we all clearly see is neocon garbage (he stood guard you know) and yet when one calls it out it hurts his feelings and he called me a liar. 😂"

Because you've lied about a lot, and I'd put me calling you a liar in the same category as you calling me a neocon.
If it's good for the goose, it should be perfectly fine for the gander, right?

FranklinsTower: "I pity him, just like Gollum is to pitied.
I will now just ignore this blathering neocon idiot."

Oh, poor baby, did I hurt your feelings exposing your lies?

WinstonSmith: "BroJoeK. Here is the NATO secretary saying they have been in conflict since 2014..."

I have not kept track of exactly who made which outrageous claims, but at least one poster said Russia's problem with NATO went back to not just Putin, but Yeltsin before him and even Gorbachev before that!

The fact is that under Yeltsin (from 1992 on), Russia was on a path to NATO membership, and even Putin in his early years (early 2000s) was not opposed.
But Putin wanted NATO membership on Putin's terms, not on NATO's terms and so slowly Russia drifted away from the path taken by countries like Estonia or Romania.

I identify 2008 as the watershed year, when Russia-NATO relations shifted from mostly positive and cooperative to strained and even hostile.

2008 was the year Putin invaded Georgia and Pres. Bush advocated Georgia and Ukraine join NATO.
From that point on, Putin grew increasingly hostile.

WinstonSmith: "Maybe just maybe you could take a step back.
Now if you’re Ukrainian, I get it.
But from a US citizens stand point, we have allowed really stupid and naive people to take over our foreign policy and I am sorry about that... but following up bad decision with more naivety and stupidity will only get more people killed in the long run... Literally Billion of People will get killed if we don’t take a realist approach."

You may remember the Cold War, it lasted some 45 years, nearly all of them under the threat of nuclear Armageddon, if somebody hit the wrong button.
I grew up in the Cold War and served in the US Army during it and I remember the MAD doctrine.
And crazy as it sounds, MAD did keep the peace all that time.

And of course, it would be strictly a historical curiosity except for this fact: so did and so does Vladimir Putin.
Putin is also a child of the Cold War and he knows all about the nuclear gamesmanship that Soviets played throughout that period.
And at no time during the Cold War were the Soviets ever insane or suicidal.
They played the nuclear threat game, but it always ended short of war.
So I don't think Putin is suicidal, I don't think he wants to bring Armageddon down on Russia, but I do think he see us as weak and perhaps easily frightened.
And he's going to try to frighten us.

Our problem is Putin's invasion of Ukraine is the the test of our time.
Will we repeat the mistakes of the French and British in the 1930s as Hitler gobbled up one little country after another, until there was no stopping Hitler short of a total world war?
Or will we stand strong and force Putin to back down on a small scale, before his ambitions & capabilities have grown beyond management?

Bottom line: what you here call a "realist approach" is simply Neville Chamberlain in drag, nothing else.
You will get "peace in our time" and it will last until Putin or the next Hitler wannabe decides to try his luck on an even bigger scale.

I'm sorry, but those are the facts, wish them away if you want, they remain facts.

Putin is hated by many, but wtf does traitor Pence think he is? It’s time for a new political party, the neo cons and RINOS are no different than the RATS.