Pence says there's 'no room' in GOP leadership 'for apologists for Putin'

“Yushchenko himself implicated Davyd Zhvania, the godfather of one of his children, of involvement in his dioxin poisoning.[22]”
Zhvania died, as a Ukrainian, from a Russian attack in 2022.

First, there’s plenty of evidence that the CIA orchestrated the coup, along with the Arab spring AND the Summer of Love 2020.

Funny how another poster here claims the Yanukovych’ poisoning was from Putin operatives (along with the Wikipedia page) but you claim he was a Putin stooge (as did Obama, hence the coup attempt)

Third - this had EVERYTHING to do with NATO. Yes, they were offered to join NATO, yes Putin turned them down.

Putin was getting ready to invade in 2015 and Hillary was already drumming up the war drums to start the war.

What happened?

Trump came into office. y’know, because Putin stole the election?

Then... NOTHING HAPPENED for FOUR YEARS because Trump honored the pact that NATO wouldn’t expand.

Then Biden takes office, makes overtures to having Ukraine in NATO and in just over ONE yeer later... Putin invades Ukraine.

Look, you can spew your propaganda here all you want and you’re obviously trying to earn your keep - but the truth is out there and you aint tellin it.

Odd that you don’t mention 1914. No run for sandwiches in 1914 and none of the rest happens, at least not the way it did.

And the same sort of folks who just wanted to see the world burn then are still trying to push it into the fire, only now their heirs are older and richer and in the apparatus of the global elite.

And in manipulating others trying to prevent the last war they will push us into the next war.

History rhymes, it doesn’t really repeat.

Typical neocon fear mongering rhetoric that rivals global warming in fake and exaggerated fears.

So you are telling me George Washington’s wise warning to avoid foreign entanglements is unAmerican? LOL

It must suck to you that the unipolar petrodollar fiat system (the true source of many recent costly wars) is collapsing in favor of a multi polar world not based on fiat currencies controlled by the warmongering fear generating complex.

Like I said, Zelensky must be using the worlds most dangerous blackmail database in a desperate attempt to keep the petrodollar fiat system in power.

BTW, the fiat based FED is unconstitutional —Gold and Silver is the constitutional defined currency. Thus, it is unAmerican and the true cause of worldwide grief and suffering for more than a century.

Your fear mongering spells are no longer going to work — despite Janet Yellen’s laughable threats of vague consequences to China.

This bastard named Pence wants to fund Ukrainian pensions abroad while he wants to cut Social Security at home.

Pence is a piece of shit!

I will vote for the Green Party before I vote for that crappy ticket.

Yes, Newsome/Adams. Whatta nightmare
Any dem ticket will be a horror show.

Neither country involved here is our interest. Neocons always use the Neville Chamberlin crap when they have any opposition to their un necessary war mongering for power and profit.

Isn’t our kids doing the dying and it amazes me how many of you do not care about using the people of another country to do the dying to fight Russia.

Our regime does that because it would be a political disaster for any party to send this mess of a military and troops into a war with Russia over Ukraine and start WWIII.

You can parrot the logic - but you are so abjectly blind that understanding escapes you and you won't even try.

Literal invasion is only one of a long list of recognized causus belli. The Western globo homos like you provoked this war and I am sick of paying for it. Just not my circus.

WinstonSmith1984: "Even NPR explains it..."

No, your article is from June 2014 and they explained nothing like you say.
Here is the money quote from that article:

"Russian defense officials are talking about a new doctrine of subversive warfare between major world powers.
They accuse the West of using popular uprisings to topple unfriendly governments.
And some analysts say Moscow itself is employing that strategy in eastern Ukraine."

In other words, Russian leaders are simply Democrats in Ushankas -- they accuse their opponents of whatever evil deeds they themselves are committing.

Your article provides no evidence of ANY US government influence in Ukrainian politics.

WinstonSmith1984: "There were more votes than voters in PA and NV.
The truth is out there and in the data..."

Sure, some people claim that, and others say, in effect, "not so fast".
This article discussed Pennsylvania's alleged over-voting.
At the end it gives us the money quote:

"According to the final tally released by the DoS, a total of 6.96 million Pennsylvania voters actually voted in the 2020 election, amounting to 76.5% of registered voters."

WinstonSmith1984: "Also, if Trump had said anything to the Tech Oligarchs other than “stay out of it,” it would be what they needed to hang him."

And so they hung him anyway? No, what Trump said at the time was he didn't want to be beholden to them and that's totally reasonable, but it may also have cost him the election.

Again, my point here is that things are not as simple or cut & dried as you suggest.

WinstonSmith1984: "Putins version of a coup is not one of palace intrigue but one where he sees Russia losing its agency in the world."

That's insane, a total abuse of language. Any idiot can take today's worst trends, project them out into the future and conclude Armageddon is just around the corner.
That does not provide anybody with legitimate excuses to go invading and murdering their neighbors, not even Vlad the Invader.

WinstonSmith1984: [Putin] "literally lays it all out in his speeches but western media is so corrupt it can’t even take time to listen to what the man says before they get back to narrative manipulation."

Because it's totally insane. Putin's "bad feelings" give him no rights, no authority, no permission, no consent, no license or approvals to invade his neighbors and murder their citizens.

By any measure, Putin's actions are pure evil and your eagerness to defend him says there's something wrong between your ears too.

WinstonSmith1984: "If the cartels running this country wouldn’t have rigged our elections, we wouldn’t be staring at the abyss.
Stop rigging elections and we can figure out what the truth is. "

And yet... in 2022 Republicans in Congress won most contested election and gained the majority, some in the same disputed states Biden won.
How is that even possible if everything is secretly controlled by Democrats?

Skywise: "First, there’s plenty of evidence that the CIA orchestrated the coup, along with the Arab spring AND the Summer of Love 2020."

I've seen nothing that would remotely qualify as "evidence" of the CIA "orchestrating" the 2014 Ukrainian parliament voting to remove Putin's puppet Yanukovych as president of Ukraine.
Nor have I seen evidence of CIA manipulations of subsequent Ukrainian elections which confirmed their new pro-Ukrainian constitution and governments.

Skywise: "Funny how another poster here claims the Yanukovych’ poisoning was from Putin operatives (along with the Wikipedia page) but you claim he was a Putin stooge (as did Obama, hence the coup attempt)"

Obviously, you are very confused and disoriented. Viktor Yanukovych was the Ukrainian president removed by Ukraine's parliament in 2014:

"As a result, Yanukovych and the parliamentary opposition signed an agreement on 21 February

to bring about an interim unity government, constitutional reforms and early elections.
Police abandoned central Kyiv that afternoon, then Yanukovych and other government ministers fled the city that evening.[96]
The next day, parliament removed Yanukovych from office[97] and installed an interim government.[98]
The Revolution of Dignity was soon followed by the Russian annexation of Crimea and pro-Russian unrest in Eastern Ukraine, eventually escalating into the Russo-Ukrainian War."

Viktor Yushchenko was the 2004 pro-Ukrainian president poisoned, presumably by Putin's operatives, after he won a disputed election against Viktor Yanukovych.

"Following an assassination attempt in late 2004 during his election campaign, Yushchenko was confirmed to have ingested hazardous amounts of 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzodioxin (TCDD), the most potent dioxin and a contaminant in Agent Orange.
He suffered disfigurement as a result of the poisoning, but has since made a full recovery."

Skywise: "Third - this had EVERYTHING to do with NATO. Yes, they were offered to join NATO, yes Putin turned them down."

From 1992 onward, Russia under Boris Yeltsin was on a path to NATO membership, along with other Eastern European countries.
After Putin came to power in 1999, he discussed NATO membership with US President Slick Willy, in 2000.
As late as 2005 Russia contributed troops to NATO peace keeping in Bosnia.

So, Putin himself was not totally opposed to NATO and certainly did not threaten to invade Russia if Russia became a NATO member!
Putin's real problem with NATO was that NATO does not allow just every two-bit tin-horn Hitler wannabe dictator to join.
First, you have to clean up your act and become a genuine open democracy, and that was too much for Vlad the Invader.

NATO had nothing, zero, nada, zilch to do with 2014 Euromaidan & Color Revolutions.
Those were all about economic ties to the European Union, not military ties to NATO, which in 2014 the vast majority of Ukrainians opposed before Vlad's invasions.

It was Vlad the Invader's invasions which turned the vast majority of Ukrainians against Russia and towards the EU and NATO.

Skywise: "Putin was getting ready to invade in 2015 and Hillary was already drumming up the war drums to start the war."

Do you not realize how insane that sounds?
You say Putin was getting ready to invade, but Hillary wanted to "start the war"?
No, if Putin invades, then Putin starts the war, not Hillary -- any sane person knows that.
Seriously, what's wrong with you?

Skywise: "Then Biden takes office, makes overtures to having Ukraine in NATO and in just over ONE yeer later... Putin invades Ukraine."

Nonsense, since 1992 Ukraine, along with Russia, was on a path to NATO membership.
Unlike Russia, Ukraine never left that path, but Ukraine also never fully committed to join NATO before Russia's 2014 invasions and even today, after Russia's 2022 invasions Ukraine has not fully committed to a NATO M.A.P. -- Membership Action Plan.

Every move of Ukraine toward NATO was with the approval of Russia -- before circa 2005 -- or in response to Russia's invasions of Ukraine sovereign territories.

Here is the real story on Russia joining NATO:

"George Robertson, a former Labour defence secretary who led Nato between 1999 and 2003, said Putin made it clear at their first meeting that he wanted Russia to be part of western Europe.
“They wanted to be part of that secure, stable prosperous west that Russia was out of at the time,” he said.

The Labour peer recalled an early meeting with Putin, who became Russian president in 2000.
“Putin said: ‘When are you going to invite us to join Nato?’
And [Robertson] said: ‘Well, we don’t invite people to join Nato, they apply to join Nato.’
And he [Putin] said: ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’ ” "

Skywise: "Look, you can spew your propaganda here all you want and you’re obviously trying to earn your keep - but the truth is out there and you aint tellin it."

Nonsense, you've posted Russian lie after lie and still you want to lecture me about truth telling?
Truth to you is just Pravda, and nothing else, right comrade?
Whatever your party apparatchiks tell you, that's Pravda -- truth -- and you go with it.

And you don't care how improbable, absurd or insane you sound, just so long as it's Pravda.

Says the man who is 90% responsible for the Traitor-In-Chief in the Oval Office. He can move his lips, but I’m not listening.

WinstonSmith1984: “Even NPR explains it...”
No, your article is from June 2014 and they explained nothing like you say.
Here is the money quote from that article:

“Russian defense officials are talking about a new doctrine of subversive warfare between major world powers.
They accuse the West of using popular uprisings to topple unfriendly governments.
And some analysts say Moscow itself is employing that strategy in eastern Ukraine.”
In other words, Russian leaders are simply Democrats in Ushankas — they accuse their opponents of whatever evil deeds they themselves are committing.
Your article provides no evidence of ANY US government influence in Ukrainian politics.

BroJoeK... We told Moscow back when the Soviet Union fell we would not expand NATO... and yet we did. We ran a color revolution to dispose VLADs guy in Ukraine in 2014, that is not in dispute and well supported. I am not saying that VLAD is a good guy, just that he is acting rationally. Try this on for size https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4

WinstonSmith1984: “There were more votes than voters in PA and NV.
The truth is out there and in the data...”

Sure, some people claim that, and others say, in effect, “not so fast”.
This article discussed Pennsylvania’s alleged over-voting.
At the end it gives us the money quote:

“According to the final tally released by the DoS, a total of 6.96 million Pennsylvania voters actually voted in the 2020 election, amounting to 76.5% of registered voters.”
BROJOEK- you are referencing SNOPES which is a “Narrative Manager” not a fact finder. The overall all vote is not the point, look at ALL the precincts that had more votes than voters... it comes out to about 750K over votes... not possible yet they certified the election.

WinstonSmith1984: “Putins version of a coup is not one of palace intrigue but one where he sees Russia losing its agency in the world.”

That’s insane, a total abuse of language. Any idiot can take today’s worst trends, project them out into the future and conclude Armageddon is just around the corner.
That does not provide anybody with legitimate excuses to go invading and murdering their neighbors, not even Vlad the Invader.

BROJOEK- again we need to be adults... Putin saw himself going the way of Khadafi, he likely is rational in his mind and in any case everything he did was predictable (Because he told us what he was thinking) , I am not defending him or his actions I am just saying that on the national stage he should have seen strength in the west and not subversion. He is reacting to a combination of weakness in the west and subversion within his sphere of influence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNqBLmJLOJU

WinstonSmith1984: [Putin] “literally lays it all out in his speeches but western media is so corrupt it can’t even take time to listen to what the man says before they get back to narrative manipulation.”

Because it’s totally insane. Putin’s “bad feelings” give him no rights, no authority, no permission, no consent, no license or approvals to invade his neighbors and murder their citizens.

By any measure, Putin’s actions are pure evil and your eagerness to defend him says there’s something wrong between your ears too.

BORJOEK- What I see going on is that we are literally laundering money back into our political system through Ukraine which brunted the red wave and the cry of the American people to stop the insane policies which are literally killing us domestically and have us on the edge of Armageddon. (SEE FTX BITCOIN AND SBF) And add this to your thought bubble... President Z has outlawed political opposition and has taken over dictatorial powers internally. (Oligharchs in Ukraine are mysteriously dying as well from time to time now) Z is not a good guy he is a corrupt thug just like President P. Put me in the camp with John Mearsheimer, we led the Ukrainian people down the primrose path and they are being slaughtered because of it.

WinstonSmith1984: “If the cartels running this country wouldn’t have rigged our elections, we wouldn’t be staring at the abyss.
Stop rigging elections and we can figure out what the truth is. “

And yet... in 2022 Republicans in Congress won most contested election and gained the majority, some in the same disputed states Biden won.
How is that even possible if everything is secretly controlled by Democrats?

BroJoeK it is not secretly controlled by Democrats, it is controlled by the uniparty and the cartels. What is happening in AZ (https://thelibertydaily.com/bombshell-expert-witness-reveals-installed-az-governor-katie-hobbs-laundered-cartel-money-through-fake-deeds-and-mortgages-to-rig-elections-including-her-own/) right now is likely going on in GA, PA, WI, MI, NV. (If our FBI and DOJ weren’t corrupt... we might have been able to avoid all of this)

Again, I appreciate your analysis but your arguments seem to be more focused on the flees on the elephant than the elephant in the room.

No one believes Joe Biden received more legitimate votes than any other President in history.
Why do they believe that... because they all saw real time voter fraud happen and it was in their face and Joe Biden told us he assembled the most diverse voter fraud organization in history.

We have an illegitimate regime running this country, we know our media lies to us on a grand scale to keep control. (Russia Collusion for 4 years)

In our hearts we all know that this level of corruption will lead to the destruction of the west.

We need Russia as a balance against China and we have driven two powers together that can actually take down the west...

What to do? Have the DOJ and FBI launch an multistate RICO case on voter fraud and pull the bandaid off on the internal US corruption (This will take us down if we don’t eventually). While that works itself out, tell Europe, Ukraine is now their problem and we will happily support a negotiated peace. Fire Victoria Nuland and anyone else who facilitated the Ukraine grift. Get NATO back to doing large scale military drills and get the members to meet their obligations. Reestablish all our critical internal supply chains so we can defend ourselves against China. (OBTW, all that was happening before the rigged election of 2020)

DOA

Rurudyne: "Odd that you don’t mention 1914. No run for sandwiches in 1914 and none of the rest happens, at least not the way it did."

The results would be the same.
Some incident was required to light the fuse of German aggression and the Austrian Archduke's death served the purpose well.
But had he survived Sarajevo in June, he would have died in another attempt later, or some other incident would be drafted for the purpose.

The German Kaiser's high command believed that Germany's economic and military leadership in Europe was only temporary and that every day war was delayed was another day for Germany's rivals to grow relatively stronger.
The high command wanted war in 1914, and so did the Kaiser, but he wanted just a small war, something to punish Serbia for killing his friend the Archduke.
A quick little war, like Putin's 2022 invasion of Ukraine, is what the Kaiser wanted against Serbia in 1914.

But it didn't happen that way because Austria moved too slowly, had to be pushed into action, and so by the time they actually did invade Serbia, then the entire European continent was declaring war on each other and mobilizing their armies to invade.

If it didn't happen in June 1914, it would have happened another way soon after.

Rurudyne: "And the same sort of folks who just wanted to see the world burn then are still trying to push it into the fire, only now their heirs are older and richer and in the apparatus of the global elite."

Since the beginning of history, empires were always self-justifying, meaning they never needed legally valid reasons or justifications for war.
Empires have always waged war for their own reasons, and kept the peace when it suited them, not because of any law.

The old Romans never asked for anyone's permission to invade, and Napoleon invaded whomever he wanted, whenever he wanted to, no reasons or justifications were ever needed.

In that same tradition, the 1914 German Empire felt no need to justify its aggressions, except as a public relations matter.
Only later did they try to go back and clean up the records to make themselves look like innocent victims.

Like any empire in history, the German Empire in 1914 did not want to see the world burn, they just wanted to conquer more territory for themselves -- lebensraum -- mostly in the East, but some in France & Belgium too would be nice, they believed.

And Germans well understood how dangerous it was to wage war on two fronts -- East and West -- but they believed they had no choice and so when they wanted to punish Serbia for killing the Austrian Archduke, the German Empire first declared war on and invaded... France!

FranklinsTower: "Typical neocon fear mongering rhetoric that rivals global warming in fake and exaggerated fears.
So you are telling me George Washington’s wise warning to avoid foreign entanglements is unAmerican? LOL"

"Neocon"? No, during the Cold War I served and stood guard for three years in West Germany against the old Soviets doing there what Vlad the Invader has now done in Ukraine.
The logic and words then were the same as now and paleo-conservatives like US Senator Barry Goldwater fully supported it.
So there was nothing "neocon" about it.

As for President George Washington, his advice was wise, for both then and now.
He said, in effect, foreign wars in far off lands were none of our concerns.
However, Washington himself did not tolerate British support for Indian forces in our Northwest Territories.
In 1791 he sent an army of 1,000 under Gen. Arthur St. Claire to defeat the Indians in Ohio.
Those 1,000 Americans then were the equivalent to 100,000 today, relative to populations.

And in 1793, Washington raised up another army of 13,000 to wage war against American insurgents in the Whiskey Rebellion. He put RE Lee's father, US Gen. Lighthorse Harry Lee in charge of defeating rebels in western Pennsylvania.

Now, my point is, in practical terms of distance, travel times and economic importance, western Ohio in Washington's time was much further away and of less economic importance than is Ukraine to us today.
The world has grown so small that, militarily speaking, Ukraine today is our back yard.

Further, what can we mean today by "foreign entanglements"? Is NATO a "foreign entanglement"?
Are our defense treaties with Japan & South Korea "foreign entanglements? Is the United Nations a "foreign entanglement"?
The US has military bases in 85 countries on every continent except South America, are those "foreign entanglements"?
And the reasons are obvious -- none of those foreign countries are more than a few hours away by air, or a few days by sea.
They are all closer to us today than was western Ohio in President Washington's time.

FranklinsTower: "It must suck to you that the unipolar petrodollar fiat system (the true source of many recent costly wars) is collapsing in favor of a multi polar world not based on fiat currencies controlled by the warmongering fear generating complex."

Sorry, pal, but that is just lunatic talk from somebody who's been drinking far too much anti-American propaganda Kool-Aid.
It's certainly true that the US dollar's financial role has been hugely weakened by our government's profligate over-spending, driving up National Debt to previously unheard of heights.
Further, US share of global GDP -- depending on how you calculate it -- has fallen from 40% in 1960 to 24% today by some measures, 15% by others.

So, US leadership is not what it was, however, we are just as dependent, if not more so, on a stable global economy and political structures, as we have ever been.
If global economics and politics collapse, we will be more damaged today than any other time in history.

FranklinsTower: "Like I said, Zelensky must be using the worlds most dangerous blackmail database in a desperate attempt to keep the petrodollar fiat system in power."

And that is still more insane nonsense from our Russian propaganda machine.

FranklinsTower: "BTW, the fiat based FED is unconstitutional —Gold and Silver is the constitutional defined currency.
Thus, it is unAmerican and the true cause of worldwide grief and suffering for more than a century."

The US Constitution's restrictions relating to gold & silver coins are directed at the states, not the Federal government.
Our Founders in 1791 set up the First National Bank, and in 1816 the Second National Bank, despite its political unpopularity.
After the Second National Bank expired in 1836, the US went without a central bank until the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.
The First and Second National Banks were opposed politically by Democrats like Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson, but neither they nor the Federal Reserve were ever challenged successfully in court on constitutional grounds.

FranklinsTower: "Your fear mongering spells are no longer going to work — despite Janet Yellen’s laughable threats of vague consequences to China."

Maybe, but the fact remains that the world is full of little two-bit tin-horn Hitler wannabe dictators whose evil desires have been kept in check since 1945 by American economic, political and military leadership.
If that disappears from the world, then the Little Kim's, the Mula Mullahs, the Xi-snake, Vlad the Invader and many others just itching for their chance to do evil, they will be unleashed, and we will not like the results.

So you can caterwaul about "neocons" all you wish, FRiend, but the issues today are the same as they were in George Washington's time, when the quote often attributed to John Stuart Mill was first conceived:

“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”

Gotta love the paid shills on this site.

Learn more about history.

The reason WW1 spread so fast was because of a system of alliances, commitments to enter a war, one that nitwits believed would prevent wars.

The reason why they were nitwits? They assumed no rational person would want the war ... and completely neglected the existence of those who only wanted to light the fuse (AntiFa is a recent counterpart to those).

These declarations happened like a row of dominos because of those alliances.

Germany did not cause WW1, France (that helped kick off folks entering into these alliances) was no innocent without guilt or aggression. In fact the Kaiser was on his yacht when he was informed Germany was already at war.

And, yes, the system of alliances was designed to prevent things like the Napoleonic Wars, war of the past, and they caused the next war.

You may have heard the old saying that a winner figures out how to win and then goes to war while a loser goes to war and then tries to win? Well, in WW1 everyone learned one day that they were in a war because nitwits commit themselves to wars they don’t even know why they happened.

Same with going to war because of sentimental notions about preventing aggressions based on past wars and cold wars.

dforest: "Neither country involved here is our interest.
Neocons always use the Neville Chamberlin crap when they have any opposition to their un necessary war mongering for power and profit."

The historical lessons of 1936, 1938 and 1939 don't disappear just because some insanely close their eyes and pretend those things never happened.

The match-up from the 1930s is pretty close:

1936 Hitler invaded the Rhineland, part of Germany, demilitarized by Versailles. France stood by, did nothing.
1999 Putin invades Chechnya, part of Russia, an operation that killed more civilians than military. The US (Slick W) stood by, did nothing.
1938 Hitler annexed Austria, France & Britain did nothing.
2012 Putin invades Georgia, the US (GW Bush) and EU did nothing.
1939 Hitler seized Czechoslovakia; Neville Chamberlain proclaimed, "peace in our time".
2014 Putin invades Crimea, the US (BH Obama) and EU sent blankets to Ukraine.
1939 Hitler invaded Poland, and suddenly the world discovers they have a serious problem, declare war on Germany, but do little to help Poland.
2022 Putin invades Ukraine, and suddenly the world discovers they have a serious problem, send military aid to help defend Ukraine, but not enough to defeat Putin.

In 1940 Hitler quickly conquered France, Belgium and the Netherlands and the world realized he could not be defeated by anything less than total mobilization and total war.

In 2023 Putin's mobilization will lead to yet a third invasion of Ukraine, this time with massively greater numbers than before.
The world will have a choice, to stand by and disgrace itself by doing nothing, or come to Ukraine's defense and defeat the Russian aggression.

dforest: "Isn’t our kids doing the dying and it amazes me how many of you do not care about using the people of another country to do the dying to fight Russia."

And still your insane talk never stops.
Ukrainians are defending themselves; we are helping them defeat Russian aggression.

dforest: "Our regime does that because it would be a political disaster for any party to send this mess of a military and troops into a war with Russia over Ukraine and start WWIII."

US troops are stationed all through NATO to help defend them in case of Russian invasion.
The numbers of foreign volunteers, including Americans, fighting for Ukraine is said to be around 20,000.
The numbers of NATO advisers serving in Ukraine, officially or unofficially, is unknown.

‘Let me be clear’ - Mike Pence is a traitor and a shitbag