Kherson counter-offensive cheered by Ukrainians enduring Russian rule

FT ^ | 02-SEP-2022 | John Paul Rathbone

[SpeedyInTexas]

The only city captured intact by Putin’s forces remains a hotbed of resistance and partisan activity.

It was the news many in Kherson had waited six months to hear. The Ukrainian counter-offensive launched this week to recapture the southern city was cheered by those who have suffered under Russian rule since Moscow’s forces took over in March.

Residents in Kherson, strategically located on the Dnipro river that cuts across the country, reported hearing missile strikes and explosions around the city, which had made the Russian patrol increasingly jumpy.

“The pro-Ukrainian activity of people who remain in Kherson is very high,” said one resident in his mid-40s. “People here closely follow events at the front, cheer for the armed forces and await the liberation of the city.”

“Explosions are happening every day,” said another Kherson resident, a pensioner. Like all those who spoke to the Financial Times by phone from the city this week, they asked that their names be withheld for their safety.

Kherson remains the only provincial Ukrainian capital captured intact by Russian forces since President Vladimir Putin ordered the full invasion of the country in February, and the only territory occupied by Russian forces that lies west of the Dnipro river.

[wardaddy]

Today the Uke army lost their pontoon bridges (not the dnieper) the other bridge

They are cutoff south of it stranded

The Russians have moved north of that river to pound any reinforcements Kiev sends across open steppes where they are super vulnerable

Some analysts think Ukraine fell for a trap

I think they’ve lost 25%

It was a risky gambit

And as usual a meat grinder for them

Question now is will Russia destroy those trapped or allow them to escape

Who knows

I just can’t believe the crap people post here which is just fairy tales from the media oligarchy of the west

Same folks call us extremists

Yet freepers trust them on Ukraine

Telling isn’t it

How many of these posters are paid trolls

[Bruce Campbells Chin]

I think I just got whiplash from how quickly you changed subjects. The points you raised, while completely valid concerns otherwise, have absolutely nothing to do with Russia having us "on our knees." It's own own stupid spending on loads of other crap, not Ukraine or Russia, that has us in dire long-term financial consequences.

While it may not be wise for us to continue spending this money on arming Ukraine, we certainly can, and nothing Russia has done can prevent that.

[PIF]

Right on! and he’s not the only pone who served this country on this forum.

[PIF]

Everybody that support Orc genocide murder torture and invasion is either a troll working for the FSB, or a fellow traveler. Pick one wear the label proudly.

[Travis McGee]

Why do you support the calamity in Ukraine that was organized and instigated by George Soros, working hand-in-hand with Victoria Nuland at the State Dept, Obama, and the Bidens?

[PIF]

Stop with the Orc propaganda - you just prove my point.

[Robert DeLong]

Wow, you can't even see the connections and how they relate, no wonder you do not see the real dangers from our involvement in this conflict.

That's a shame. Take off your blinders, and start thinking with your brain. Then you will se there is a much bigger picture involved here.

[Robert DeLong]

BTW, it was you who brought up the money aspect:

If any of that were actually true, there is no way in hell any members of the EU, or the U.S., would still be sending money and armaments to Ukraine.

The reality is that other than than the U.S. only the U.K. is sending money anymore, and not really sure if the U.K. is still sending those items.

So, I didn't change the subject at all.

[Travis McGee]

[Bruce Campbells Chin]

You changed the subject from the allegedly devastating impact of Russia's actions on the West, to the West's own self-inflicted, pre-existing financial woes that have nothing to do with the war. Whether additional expenditures are wise in terms of our long-term fiscal health is just completely different from whether Russia itself has stopped them by bringing the West "to its knees.". You're a smart guy and I know you know the difference between those two things.

The reality is that other than than the U.S. only the U.K. is sending money anymore, and not really sure if the U.K. is still sending those items.

Nobody else ever sent much money anyway, so that hasn't "stopped" What has been sent, and is continuing to be sent - are weapons and munitions. And the U.S. - which is the leader of "the West" that is supposedly on its knees - has been sending increasingly sophisticated and effective weaponry that is having a major effect. The Poles and others have continued sending whatever they can as well.

In fact, I think the evidence shows the exact opposite of what that poster was claiming. Russia likely believed that Europe's dependence on Russian fossil fuels would prevent it from assisting Ukraine at all. And that Ukraine, standing alone, would fall easily. I think Putin likely was shocked by the Western reaction to the invasion and the flood of materials and supplies that have kept flowing to the Ukrainian military.

This is pro-Russia people trying to will/speak into existence a Russian strategic economic success that already has failed. The HIMARs and everything else are going to keep flowing, and Russia has failed to prevent that from happening.

[Robert DeLong]

You have been hit on the chin too often Bruce, and it apparently isn't as rock solid as you believe it to be.

I guess we will just wait and see, because apparently you do not keep current with anything other than the conflict.

Perhaps you should read this:

United Kingdom Is Next in the Cascade of Collapse

Let's define the actions.

Russia has cut off the EU from energy. Their economies need energy to survive. Biden cutoff our oil independence, which means we cannot step in and help Europe. Because we are no longer free of oil dependency, we too are seeing fallout from that as well, in higher prices across the board, except housing which is now falling. People are behind on their mortgages, rents, electricity payments, and struggling on food. Soon, the homeless situation ans starvation numbers will start increasing dynamically.

When you couple that with our debt load, the invasion along our southern border, it only puts more of a strain on our finances. While you are correct that much of the western nations have self-inflicted the pains upon themselves, this conflict is just one more example of that very thing, and you just do not get it. But do not think that Russia has not played a part in exacerbating that situation.

So, you brilliantly assume we can keep going down the path of destruction and there will be no consequences. That's pure insanity.

[Bruce Campbells Chin]

So, you brilliantly assume we can keep going down the path of destruction and there will be no consequences. That's pure insanity.

That is not my point at all, although I think we are doomed to the consequences of our long-term crappy economic choices regardless of our support of Ukraine. That's a comparative drop in the bucket.

The discussion was about Russia and what is going to happen in this particular war. And whatever those eventual, larger economic consequences will be, they are not going to happen quickly enough to impact military support to Ukraine from either the United States or any other European nations.

Russia has tried and failed to stop the West from assisting Ukraine. I don't see how that is even arguable at this point.

[Robert DeLong]

That is not my point at all, although I think we are doomed to the consequences of our long-term crappy economic choices regardless of our support of Ukraine.

A truly ignorant statement, not to mention a defeatist attitude. We are going down so what the hack huh.

Russia has tried and failed to stop the West from assisting Ukraine. I don't see how that is even arguable at this point.

The opposite is also true. However, you are under the delusional belief that Ukraine is winning, when the truth is they are not.

But you won't believe it until it all comes crashing down around the Ukrainians. In the meantime, you see a little hardship as alright. Problem is, that little hardship as you so callously describe it, it far worse than you apparently realize. It will cause death in significant numbers.

[Bruce Campbells Chin]

Again, you are taking this discussion beyond the very limited point I made in the first place, which was that Russia has not "crippled the EU", nor "brought the West to its knees.". You have repeatedly ducked that point in favor of arguing against other points that I never made in the first place.

Whether it is wise of us to support Ukraine at all is a different question, as is what the ultimate resolution of this war will be. I personally don't see that as a worthwhile discussion to have here. But if it is, that's for a different thread/topic.

[Robert DeLong]

You are so narrow minded on a topic that is much bigger than the focus you choose to apply to it.

It's only a matter of time before that statement is a reality. It is already having very grave repercussions. It's like saying the bullet didn't kill the person, because he is still alive, but death is eminent say the doctors.

The problem with people like you who grab statements that may have not played out fully to its conclusion, is that you fail to see, mortal damage has been inflicted. The doctors are declaring little to do to save the patient, and that it is up to the Lord to provide a miracle.

Is that what you believe will transpire here, a miracle? It that is the case, we do not need to intervene. We just need to praise the Lord for the work he did afterwards.

[Robert DeLong]

Not a holiday in Europe today. German stocks smacked, down almost 3%, and the winter Energy crisis looms.

Escalating an irrelevant regional struggle in Ukraine…not such a great idea! Escalating both sides of a war, even worse idea.

Learn from Europe’s errors, America!

It just keeps getting worse, and that will equate to lots of suffering for Europeans.

Meanwhile, back in the U.S.:

The WSJ just wakes up to the news that America endured a systemic crisis of confidence.

If you’ve watched Bannon and Cortes on War Room, you’ve been on this trend all year…

[Bruce Campbells Chin]

I think some suffering now to demonstrate resolve in the face of international aggression is preferable to the much greater suffering likely to happen down the road if we don't.

War as an instrument of national policy to achieve geopolitical gains is intolerable. The disruption caused by this conflict with Russia is orders of magnitude less than if China were decide to try a similar play with Taiwan.

[Robert DeLong]

What percentage of the population in Europe do you suspect will be suffering? What percentage is already behind the 8-ball? Just how much suffering is acceptable in your opinion?

You keep saying that Europe is not suffering and that the U.S. is not on her knees.

I keep telling you that if the dollar is dethroned, we will be flat on our backs. We are on our knees with this insane spending going on, you just do not see it because we are the world's currency. When it comes time to pay the Piper, you will see that reality, in spades. But you fail to comprehend exactly what I am saying, and state that I am avoiding your statement. No, you are avoid the reality, and I am trying to get you to realize just how bad our situation really is. We are literally teetering on the precipice of total collapse.