Russian Navy cruiser Moskva sank while being towed in a storm- Russian Ministry of Defence quoted as saying

Reportedly around 500 on ship.

So around 450 now out of the war.

Numbers always subject to change as facts present themselves.

101 posted on 04/14/2022 2:00:25 PM PDT by SpeedyInTexas (Whenever a Russian soldier is killed, an Angel gets its wings)

To: SpeedyInTexas

“Reportedly around 500 on ship.”

Before it was evacuated.

102 posted on 04/14/2022 2:02:06 PM PDT by TexasGator (UF)

The ship sank last night. It’s okay to be sad.

103 posted on 04/14/2022 2:02:19 PM PDT by marcusmaximus

Just look at the missile tubes on deck - a direct hit on one with 300 lbs of explosives traveling at that speed will definitely bring about secondary explosions. Some reports stated that the ship rolled enough after the first impact for the second missile to hit below the waterline on the hull - bringing the full magazine into play.

This ship has been sailing for decades - the chances of this being caused by improper handling of munitions is almost zero.

104 posted on 04/14/2022 2:02:25 PM PDT by datura (Eventually, the Lord and the Truth will win.)

And there lies the trap for the West. Our support of the Ukraine has allowed them to stymie Russian attempts at conventional warfare. That pushes Putin into a corner of admitting defeat or ramping up to total war like thermobaric bombs on civilian populations. Should Putin ramp up what does NATO do, accept the devastation or put boots on the ground? Keep in mind the Russians are struggling because their military is weaker than they thought largely due to corruption. We have not mobilized for a war in 20 years and now are led by generals who care more about pronouns and COVID vaccines than combat readiness.

I don’t think we lose, but I think our losses would be greater than most imagine.

105 posted on 04/14/2022 2:02:28 PM PDT by RightOnTheBorder

Putin’s popularity in Russia has gone up 10 points since the end of February. If anything, this likely hardens Russia’s stance among their ppl.

106 posted on 04/14/2022 2:02:41 PM PDT by Prince of Space ( Let’s go, Brandon! )

To: SpeedyInTexas; All

The Neptune Missiles:

RK-360MT Neptunes are mobile anti-ship cruise missile capable of destroying targets within a range of 300 km.

The 16-ft long engine-powered missiles can travel at speeds of up to 560mph (900 km/h) and at heights of between nine and 30ft above the surface.

So they travel a bit under the speed of sound. The noise would have been masked by the storm as well as the radar signature.

107 posted on 04/14/2022 2:03:01 PM PDT by marktwain

To: marcusmaximus

“The ship sank last night. It’s okay to be sad.”

Why are you sad?

108 posted on 04/14/2022 2:03:11 PM PDT by TexasGator (UF)

“If you repeat a lie often enough some dope will believe it.”

Reports say 54 rescued. You can think of 54 evacuated.

Best info I have.

Time will tell how many died and how many lived.

109 posted on 04/14/2022 2:04:15 PM PDT by SpeedyInTexas (Whenever a Russian soldier is killed, an Angel gets its wings)

And Ukraine still thinks they have a prayer of winning. 😂

110 posted on 04/14/2022 2:04:38 PM PDT by Prince of Space ( Let’s go, Brandon! )

To: marcusmaximus

“There was no evacuation. A Turkish ship saved 54 crewmen yesterday and the rest went down with the ship last night in bad weather”

If true, there is some irony. It’s the Turks Drones that have caused a lot of carnage on the Rooskies.

111 posted on 04/14/2022 2:04:56 PM PDT by DAC21

I think the Slava’s were designed like Sovremenny’s. Launch missiles and get busy sinking. That’s why the missiles were on the outside. They weren’t designed to be on the ship when incoming was headed their way. An F-16’s cannon would rip the ship apart if the missiles were there.

Shoot, a skinny with a skiff and an RPG could do it

112 posted on 04/14/2022 2:05:01 PM PDT by AppyPappy (Biden told Al Roker "America is back". Unfortunately, he meant back to the 1970's)

To: SpeedyInTexas

If that’s true, somewhere around 450 went down with the ship.

113 posted on 04/14/2022 2:05:32 PM PDT by DesertRhino (Dogs are called man's best friend. Moslems hate dogs. Add it up..)

This ship has been sailing for decades - the chances of this being caused by improper handling of munitions is almost zero.

For decades, but not during a war. There was likely quite a bit of difference in peacetime and wartime configurations.

114 posted on 04/14/2022 2:05:43 PM PDT by marktwain

To: Prince of Space

Maybe not winning but Russia sure is losing.

115 posted on 04/14/2022 2:05:44 PM PDT by SkyDancer ( I make airplanes fly, what's your super power?)

To: SpeedyInTexas

The Russians are admitting it was fire caused my munitions explosion. They’re just not telling you who’s munition caused the explosion and fire on the ship

116 posted on 04/14/2022 2:05:50 PM PDT by shotgun

To: shadowlands1960

Your uncle was fighting the good fight. His comrades-in-arms took care of the Bismark and later Nazi Germany itself.

117 posted on 04/14/2022 2:06:13 PM PDT by Monterrosa-24 (To the barricades !!!)

Ukraine hasn’t released casualty numbers during this entire war. They stated they’re not going to until it’s over. Gives them plenty of time to cover up hundreds of thousands of deaths according to your premise.

118 posted on 04/14/2022 2:06:31 PM PDT by Prince of Space ( Let’s go, Brandon! )

Good info on Moskva 360 vs 180 degree radars:

https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1514498197489659909

“Some thoughts on the apparent sinking of the Russian Black Sea flagship Moskva: if confirmed, it's likely to go down in history as one of the most audaciously successful attacks in modern naval history. /1”

If she's been sunk, the Moskva will be the biggest warship lost since WW2: at 12,490 tons she's bigger than Argentina's General Belgrano, sunk by the Royal Navy in 1982. /2

Apart from the symbolism of her likely loss, she's of great military value as a platform for air defence and missile bombardment of land targets. Her loss is of great significance to both sides. /3

She will likely be irreplaceable - the only ship of her class, built in Ukraine (!) in 1979. Russia can't transfer warships from elsewhere to replace her as Turkey has closed the Bosphorus to military traffic. /4

So how did Ukraine do it? Early reports suggest a brilliantly effective combination of tactics, strategy and the exploitation of its own capabilities, combined with awareness of Russian weaknesses. /5

The Moskva was reportedly struck by Ukrainian-designed Neptune anti-ship cruise missiles. These only entered service in 2019. They apparently hadn't seen action before in this war. /6

According to early reports, the attack took place during a storm. This would have made flying difficult but also helps to conceal shore-based activity from observation. The Russians wouldn't have seen the preparations. /7

Reportedly, the Ukrainians used a Bayraktar TB-2 drone to distract the Moskva. The Ukrainian Navy introduced TB-2s into service in August 2021. /8

In naval use, they can be employed to find enemy ships and relay their positions to coastal missile batteries, as well as carrying out direct attacks using their own payloads. /9

It's possible that the Ukrainians used a TB-2 to identify and target the Moskva for the Neptune battery. Or it could have been a sacrificial pawn to distract the cruiser. Or both! (I don't know if the TB-2 survived.) /10

How did the Russians not see the incoming Neptunes? The Moskva has/had a single main air defence radar - a 3P41 Volna phased array to guide S300 missiles. Problem is, it only has a 180 degree field of vision. /11

360 degree coverage is provided by MR-800 Voshkod/Top Pair 3-D long range air search radars for shorter-range SA-8 missiles. But it's likely that in the storm, they couldn't distinguish the sea-skimming Neptunes from the wavetops. /12

So it's likely that the Ukrainians purposefully got the Moskva to point its best radar in the wrong direction while the Neptunes sneaked under the coverage of the other radars. Very smart. /13

As for the Moskva - the Russians say it caught fire and the (surviving?) crew were evacuated. No crew means no damage control, which means an uncontained fire. /14

At the very least, it's likely to have burned down to the waterline, if it hasn't actually sunk. Reports suggest it was listing badly before it was evacuated, so there was probable water ingress. /15

Either way, the total loss of the Moskva as a military asset is highly, highly likely. The man in the Kremlin is having a very bad day today. /end

119 posted on 04/14/2022 2:07:44 PM PDT by SpeedyInTexas (Whenever a Russian soldier is killed, an Angel gets its wings)

“This ship has been sailing for decades - the chances of this being caused by improper handling of munitions is almost zero.”

Yet that was my first thought simply because in my lifetime every Soviet/Russian ship that ever died did so because of the incompetence of the crew or the failures of its munitions.

I’m truly gobsmacked that two novel missiles hit this ship let alone sank it. It’s rather stunning to consider.

120 posted on 04/14/2022 2:09:21 PM PDT by MercyFlush (The Soviet Empire is right now doing a dead cat bounce.)

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