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To: All
Good info on Moskva 360 vs 180 degree radars:

https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1514498197489659909

“Some thoughts on the apparent sinking of the Russian Black Sea flagship Moskva: if confirmed, it's likely to go down in history as one of the most audaciously successful attacks in modern naval history. /1”

If she's been sunk, the Moskva will be the biggest warship lost since WW2: at 12,490 tons she's bigger than Argentina's General Belgrano, sunk by the Royal Navy in 1982. /2

Apart from the symbolism of her likely loss, she's of great military value as a platform for air defence and missile bombardment of land targets. Her loss is of great significance to both sides. /3

She will likely be irreplaceable - the only ship of her class, built in Ukraine (!) in 1979. Russia can't transfer warships from elsewhere to replace her as Turkey has closed the Bosphorus to military traffic. /4

So how did Ukraine do it? Early reports suggest a brilliantly effective combination of tactics, strategy and the exploitation of its own capabilities, combined with awareness of Russian weaknesses. /5

The Moskva was reportedly struck by Ukrainian-designed Neptune anti-ship cruise missiles. These only entered service in 2019. They apparently hadn't seen action before in this war. /6

According to early reports, the attack took place during a storm. This would have made flying difficult but also helps to conceal shore-based activity from observation. The Russians wouldn't have seen the preparations. /7

Reportedly, the Ukrainians used a Bayraktar TB-2 drone to distract the Moskva. The Ukrainian Navy introduced TB-2s into service in August 2021. /8

In naval use, they can be employed to find enemy ships and relay their positions to coastal missile batteries, as well as carrying out direct attacks using their own payloads. /9

It's possible that the Ukrainians used a TB-2 to identify and target the Moskva for the Neptune battery. Or it could have been a sacrificial pawn to distract the cruiser. Or both! (I don't know if the TB-2 survived.) /10

How did the Russians not see the incoming Neptunes? The Moskva has/had a single main air defence radar - a 3P41 Volna phased array to guide S300 missiles. Problem is, it only has a 180 degree field of vision. /11

360 degree coverage is provided by MR-800 Voshkod/Top Pair 3-D long range air search radars for shorter-range SA-8 missiles. But it's likely that in the storm, they couldn't distinguish the sea-skimming Neptunes from the wavetops. /12

So it's likely that the Ukrainians purposefully got the Moskva to point its best radar in the wrong direction while the Neptunes sneaked under the coverage of the other radars. Very smart. /13

As for the Moskva - the Russians say it caught fire and the (surviving?) crew were evacuated. No crew means no damage control, which means an uncontained fire. /14

At the very least, it's likely to have burned down to the waterline, if it hasn't actually sunk. Reports suggest it was listing badly before it was evacuated, so there was probable water ingress. /15

Either way, the total loss of the Moskva as a military asset is highly, highly likely. The man in the Kremlin is having a very bad day today. /end


119 posted on 04/14/2022 2:07:44 PM PDT by SpeedyInTexas (Whenever a Russian soldier is killed, an Angel gets its wings)
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To: SpeedyInTexas

Note: It is possible that Ukrainians served on the Moskva at some point and knew this info.


124 posted on 04/14/2022 2:12:32 PM PDT by AppyPappy (Biden told Al Roker "America is back". Unfortunately, he meant back to the 1970's)
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To: SpeedyInTexas
So how did Ukraine do it?


140 posted on 04/14/2022 2:46:56 PM PDT by mac_truck (aide toi et dieu t'aidera )
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To: SpeedyInTexas
How did the Russians not see the incoming Neptunes? The Moskva has/had a single main air defence radar - a 3P41 Volna phased array to guide S300 missiles. Problem is, it only has a 180 degree field of vision.

The 3P41 Volna (NATO desig Top Dome) is a "fire control" radar, not a "search" radar. It only comes into play after a target is detected and S-300 missiles are launched. It isn't used to detect incoming missiles.

There are several possibilities for why Moskva didn't intercept the missiles.

Poor radar performance in rough seas vs a sea skimming cruise missile.

Poor/lazy radar operation, decreasing sensitivity to get rid of clutter (again due to rough seas) or just not paying attention.

Hubris of the crew, thinking they couldn't be touched (like USS Stark).

Equipment failure.

They might have attempted and failed. In addition to the S-300s, the Moskva had short range missiles and CIWS systems that operate independently of the Top Dome radar.

143 posted on 04/14/2022 2:58:42 PM PDT by ETCM
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To: SpeedyInTexas

Bookmark


144 posted on 04/14/2022 2:59:37 PM PDT by Southside_Chicago_Republican (The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog. )
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