Posted on 12/09/2021 3:18:11 PM PST by Thunder90
President Joe Biden’s administration reportedly plans to push the Ukrainian government to appease Russian President Vladimir Putin by ceding territory, The Associated Press reported Thursday
(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...
👍😀
I’m not saying that we should go start a war right now but since Russia and China are jockeying for world influence and territorial expansion, its obviously not going to be as irrelevant for the future as you seem to think it is.
Russians are not subhuman.
Russia has beautiful women, and therefor, Russia should be an ally not an adversary.
Russia can’t populate the territory it has, yet it needs more.
What Kissinger said is true. “Russia is always expanding or contracting. It cannot exist in statis.” Russia should use caution. As it depopulates, China will eventually greedily eye the eastern territory of Russia.
There should’ve been some changes to NATO long ago. It should really be “defensive” for free democratic states ONLY. There should be no long-distance offensive weapons within the coalition states. All military bases should be rotational with the primary users being the home nation’s armed forces. In keeping with rotational bases, we should allow their troops to train on our bases also. There should be no “free riders” either. Anyone not able to fully fund it will have the defense aid pact revoked until the funds are restored. (This is a wish list.)
America really is/was the protector of the “free” world order. Our mistake was allowing Russia and China to join it. These two pariah nations need to be isolated and steadily removed from the world order.
He’ll lend Vlad, Harry Reid’s exercise equipment instead...
It is hard to maintain an argument with a person who can barely read and lacks the basics of civility but I’ll try.
Here is the text of the agreement per the UN resolution.
To put it short there are the following points.
1. Immediate ceasefire between Kiev and rebels since February 15, 2015.
2. Withdrawal of heavy weapons from the zone of contact between government and separatist forces.
3. The setup of monitoring by OSCE over fulfillment of points 1, 2.
4. The talks between Kiev and separatists to define to guidelines of their autonomy and within 30 days a legal act by the Ukrainian Parliament granting it.
5. Pardon and amnesty for combatants involved in hostilities.
6. Release of all hostages and illegally held persons by both sides.
7. Safe access to international organizations for distributing humanitarian aid.
8. A full restoration by Ukraine of social and economic ties including banking to the temporary uncontrolled territories.
9. Restoration of the Ukrainian government control over national border AFTER THE FREE ELECTIONS as in point 11.
Pullout of foreign groups and equipment, disarmament of illegal armed groups.
10. The adoption of the new Constitution by Ukraine with the goal of decentralization (or federalization) taking into account peculiarities of Donetsk and Lugansk Oblasts.
To divide the responsibilities between the above Oblast authorities and central government.
11. To intensify the work of Trilateral Contact Group to implement all of the above.
Russia is not a side of the conflict, but a guarantor with Germany and France.
Russia’s position is that Donbas should return to Ukraine on the above terms.
Ukraine has two lines of propaganda regarding the issue.
According to the version for international consumption the agreement can’t be fulfilled because “Russia” refuses to maintain a ceasefire.
According to the domestic version, all of the above shouldn’t be fulfilled because it is a “Russian” plan to take control over Ukraine proper through the inclusion of Donbas, which is going to vote accordingly.
The agreement stipulates that border control comes AFTER the elections.
Ukraine instead is adopting a law of “interim period” stipulating prosecution of “collaborators”, including rebels and all of the public servants of LDNR down to firefighters and school teachers, and stripping Donbas residents of electoral rights for up to 15 years.
Ukrainian politicians have suggested concentration camps for reeducation of people “poisoned by Russian propaganda.”
Of course, it is Ukraine that fails to maintain a ceasefire to that the numerous evidence is recorded by OSCE. One obvious evidence is that on the LDNR side the casualties of the artillery shelling are almost exclusively civilians, on the Ukrainian side exclusively military.
That is because “Russia” wants the agreement implemented and the Ukraine doesn’t.
Not quite. The Russians need Sebastopol as a warm water naval base. They don’t need the Crimea or the entire Black Sea. But Sebastopol, they do need. Ukraine still has Odessa.
Since lying and Russian Mat are your native tongue, I took a look at the OSCE website while sitting here at the airport and made the following discoveries: out of the huge number of daily reports made of ceasefire violations, there was not one placing blame on the Ukrainian side (though I'm sure there are bound to be individual reports for certain incidents somewhere). On the other hand, I found this on the OSCE's opinion of WHO is to blame for OSCE violations. I will bold the text so that even your blurry, vodka impaired eyes can follow along:
Ongoing Violations of International Law and Defiance of OSCE Principles and Commitments by the Russian Federation in Ukraine
https://osce.usmission.gov/on-russias-ongoing-aggression-against-ukraine-and-illegal-occupation-of-crimea-22/
Here is a good quote:
"We further call on Russia to direct the forces it arms, trains, leads, and fights alongside to cease their harassment of the Special Monitoring Mission. This week— once again—the SMM confirmed multiple movement restrictions. The vast majority of these occurred, as we have come to expect, in Russia-controlled territory in eastern Ukraine. The SMM’s mandate, as agreed to by all the participating States—including Russia—affords it the freedom to operate throughout all of Ukraine and the monitors should be allowed to fulfill their reporting responsibilities without interference. Restricting the SMM’s movement only serves to hinder the peaceful resolution of this multi-year conflict. But maybe that’s the Kremlin’s intent?"
Let me ask you something you Russian goblin, if its Ukraine that is just sitting around and terrorizing a State that has an army about 3 or 4x its side, why has the OSCE come to expect the Russians to interfere and hamper all independent investigation of who is violating the ceasefire?
The article continues with some more juicy quotes:
"Certainly, Russia continues to actively obstruct the peace process."
Uh oh! Is your Goblin brain seeing this?
"... While it fuels the conflict it launched more than seven years ago; in recent months, Russia sought to heighten tensions on the ground while denying it is a party to the conflict and perpetuating the false narrative that Russia is an impartial mediator.
" False narrative of an impartial mediator? Where have I heard this narrative before? Oh yeah, YOUR brain addled posts all over this forum!
It continues:
"In recent weeks, Russia mobilized large numbers of its forces along its border with Ukraine and in occupied Crimea, all the while casting ludicrous accusations that Ukraine was responsible for escalating tensions."
You hear that you Russian-so-ashamed-of-being-Russian-you-are-pretending-to-be-a-Norse-Viking? "All the while casting ludicrous accusations that Ukraine was responsible for escalating tensions." Sounds exactly like what you're doing, eh?
Read it and weep, or, pass out, whichever you are more inclined to do.
As for your other BS, if I had a dollar for every hour I spent disproving random BS from you, I'd have a ton more money to gamble over in Lake Tahoe! See you latter, dummy!
Let the EU sort this crap out. Trump made the point that we bankrolled NATO financially and personnel wise. Point is EU has no defense, because we’ve bent over and did it for free.
let them sort this crap out, and if they can’t, Oh well.
Your intellectual capacity is not sufficient to disprove anything, Puny. That is why you are resorting to insults.
It is irrelevant who OSCE blames, it has the damage registered, which is to the civilian infrastructure on side of LDNR.
On the Ukrainian side, the artillerymen are bagged, indication counter-battery fire. If you are counting per shell fired maybe LDNR is committing more “violations” but it makes no sense to count this way because they are responding.
Your position makes no logical sense.
What is the point for “Russia” to violate ceasefire if it is interested in Minsk (according to the Ukrainian propaganda as well) where Ukraine is vehemently against Minsk?
Is it hard to follow the money?
Unless, of course, they're saying what you'd like them to say LOL. Why don't you take your goblinoid version of events and burrow back into some crap hole in Mordor instead of bothering us civilized humans with your lies and BS?
What you are experiencing is a Chickenhawk Neocon Hegemonic wet dream.
Ukraine is a state which launders money for the Dims, the CIA, for State, and was used as a base for attacks against MAGA values. Soros runs it. We have zero interest in Ukraine, in fact I would wrap the country in a bow for Putin and throw in Soros as a bonus.
You forgot to mention that the two “pro-American” administrations sold ALCM technology to Iran and China, and then ICBM to North Korea.
Not to mention their FBI chief Sytnik was caught admitting on the phone to faking Yanukovich’s “black ledger” to frame Manafort and bring down Trump’s campaign for Hillary.
Alex Vindman, Hunter’s job etc, etc, etc.
Sorry, Puny, but you are a globalist clown. All your points are copy-cut from the debunked propaganda of 8 years ago.
Thanks for the additional ammo.
To hell with the Ukraine. Den of thieves and pit of vipers.
Allyship.
Wtg.
“This was posted on FR yesterday and it seems the writer may be right on the money.
https://asiatimes.com/2021/12/what-putin-really-told-biden/“
Very interesting article for the “outside the U.S.” point of view. Everyone should read it.
The people never had a choice to vote when Russia gave Crimea away.
One of the first things the Chocolate King as "dictator" did was to say that only Russian would be taught and spoken. That rule was soon overturned.
LOL!
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