George Floyd had ‘violent criminal history’: Minneapolis police union chief

NY Post ^ | June 2, 2020 | 12:04pm | Updated | Kate Sheehy

[conservative98]

The head of the Minneapolis police union says George Floyd’s “violent criminal history” needs to be remembered and that the protests over his death are the work of a “terrorist movement.”

“What is not being told is the violent criminal history of George Floyd. The media will not air this,” police union president Bob Kroll told his members in a letter posted Monday on Twitter.

Floyd had landed five years behind bars in 2009 for an assault and robbery two years earlier, and before that, had been convicted of charges ranging from theft with a firearm to drugs, the Daily Mail reported.

[jonrick46]

With a person who is brain dead, the heart can keep beating as long as the heart receives oxygen from a ventilator. When the breathing machine is turned off, a patient who is brain dead will stops breathing and the heart stops beating. in short, the brain controls the function of breathing. If the brain dies from asphyxiation, the breathing stops and if there is no oxygen from the lungs, the heart stops quickly.

The EMS team may not have understood what had happened. If they had realized what happened, they could have ventilated the lungs while giving Floyd electric shock treatments to revive the heart.

[jonrick46]

Excuse my typos and missing words in my reply.

[Lion Den Dan]

I am sorry for any person on whom you sit in judgement. You are prejudicial and unreasoning. I suppose the cop is scum because he followed department policy on restraint. There is too much information not shared with the public to make an informed judgement in the matter so with your bigoted opinion tucked safely in your anus, please continue to puke.

[jonrick46]

"I’m surprised Baden made the comments he did abbot that- He even went so far as to claim the ‘Diaphragm was prevented from functioning’ because of ‘a knee on his back’ At no point did i see the officer’s other knee on the mans back the diaphragm was nowhere near the knee on the head"

There were three officers holding down Floyd: Derek Chauvin, with knee over carotid artery on neck, J. Alexander Kueng with knee on the chest and Thomas Lane holding the legs. So, your description does not support your conclusion that Floyd suffered a heart attack.

I don't know how Dr. Badan calls it asphyxiation. Nor how Dr. Allecia Wilson calls it asphyxiation. She is one of the two forensic doctors who performed the independent autopsy. She said the evidence pointed to homicide by “mechanical asphyxia” meaning from some physical force that interfered with oxygen supply. It was not asphyxiation which is the cutting off of air to the lungs with the pressure applied to Floyd's back by officer Kueng. It was actually strangulation which denotes the cutting off blood supply to the brain by physically clamping down on the carotid arteries in the neck. By cutting off blood supply it cuts off the oxygen to the brain. Is this what she meant by mechanical asphyxia?

Chauvin's precisely applied knee did the real killing. I am sure the real nature of what happened will be the bomb shell that puts the four officers in mighty trouble.

[The Great RJ]

The Democrat political machine that has run the Twin Cities for decades is doing everything they can to minimize the damage from this incident. The "official" autopsy result by the ME initially claimed the videos not with standing they could find no evidence of traumatic asphyxia and the victim had a variety of drugs in his system. Typically forensic toxicology reports take days if not weeks to complete. Only when the victims family brought in independent medical examiners including Dr. Baden did the Hennepin County ME relent and declare Floyds death a homicide.

Democrat Governor Tim Walz also tried to minimize the failure of the party machine by blaming outside agitators especially white supremacists and ludicrously drug cartels for the riots. The Governors arguments were quickly shot down by a local TV station that examined the arrest records and found the vast majority of rioters were local residents.

It is little wonder the police union with its strong ties to the Democrat machine are also trying to shift blame to the victim

[Carborundum]

To address your question, Mother Nature is clever. She gives us back up mechanisms, in some cases, lest we suffer a failure of a organ/system that is key for survival—a failure that would otherwise be catastrophic. In the case of the blood supply (vascular system) for the brain, that backup system includes sufficient anatomic redundancy to provide for maintenance of collateral flow to the organ if one supply line is blocked. There are normally 4 arteries, not just 2, that feed the brain: these include 2 internal carotid arteries (ICAs) and 2 vertebral arteries. Your Mayo illustration omits the vertebrals. The key is that there is a central anatomic “manifold” called the Circle of Willis (CofW) at the base of the brain, surrounding the pituitary gland. The CofW is fed by the 4 big arteries, and it is central to the back-up system. There CofW then gives off small penetrating arteries that go on to provide O2 and nutrients to the white and grey matter of the cerebrum and cerebellum. You can look it up. Google can be your friend, but Bing or Duckduckgo should also work.

I think you will find that it will tell you that the carotids can not infrequently get plugged after many years of having high cholesterol levels, just like coronary arteries (etc.) can. As far as I know, the vertebrals are less prone to that plugging (but they can become lacerated—a development that can lead to death—by some vigorous chiropractic manipulations).

As for the carotid plugging by cholesterol deposits, some vascular surgeons can make lots of $$$ cleaning them out. A discussion of the ins and outs of that process is a bit much for me to get into here, but suffice it to say that back in the good old days, the carotids would frequently get severely plugged after years of eating excess lard and ice cream. These days, now that we have statins, etc, to use, I think complete occlusions are less common, but occasionally someone will turn up with one (occlusion = blockage). And FWIW, there are people who have lived for years with asymptomatic complete occlusions of an ICA.

So the folks here who claim that you always need both R and L carotids fully open and working in order to survive are misinformed.

And since you like the Mayo, here is a webpage you may find helpful

https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/carotid-endarterectomy/about/pac-20393379

If you want more info, and are in Minnesota, my old office-mate of mine (Hamid) was still working there in Rochester—last I heard—and he could probably do a much better job at explaining all this than I can. Don’t know whether the clinic would charge for his time tho’. They might. I know they charge quite a bit for their CME courses.

[jonrick46]

I think you are being thrown off, as I was, by the term asphyxiation. There was a certain amount of breathing trouble as Floyd was being pinned by J. Alexander Kueng with his knee to his back. I wouldn’t breathe so well with my chin jammed into the pavement by Derek Chauvin and Kueng with all of his weight on my lungs.

With Floyd’s breathing restricted by weight on his lungs and Chauvin’s restriction of his blood and vital oxygen into his brain, he was critically being oxygen deprived. That weight on his neck was equivalent to strangulation. Whether it was meant to subdue Floyd, it was a cruel way of killing someone.

[Bob434]

[[It was actually strangulation which denotes the cutting off blood supply to the brain by physically clamping down on the carotid arteries in the neck.]]

for that to happen- all the arteries would need to be compressed- there was no stranglehold like shawn hannity tried to imply- like a ‘rear naked choke hold’ which woudl be needed to stop a ll flow to the brain-

And remember- heart attacks cause blood flow to stop- preventing it searching brain-

[jonrick46]

Are you thinking of the second autopsy performed by the famed Dr. Baden and Dr. Allecia Wilson of the University of Michigan and the President of the Michigan Association of Medical Examiners? It is the results of this autopsy that refutes the white wash treatment by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner. What got me confused is the term “mechanical asphyxia.” I thought this term referred to the restriction of blood flow in the carotid artery which is more consistent with the knee on the neck where the carotid is located.

Then, I looked up the standard definition of asphyxia which told me it was the restriction of oxygen into the lungs. With me thrown completely off by a term, I decided to learn what it is. The definition I got very quickly:

"Mechanical asphyxia involves some physical force or physical abnormality that interferes with the uptake and/or delivery of oxygen. Most mechanical asphyxiants affect breathing or blood flow, the latter usually due to neck vessel or thoracic compression."

I think this describes exactly what happened.

[jonrick46]

You give an accurate analysis. You need to go into the legal field.

Let’s say this was Michael Moore who they pulled out of his limo. They didn’t realize he was suffering from a diabetic severe hypoglycemia. Moore, who never expected to be treated like that, puts up a fuss and gets handcuffed and moved over to the squad car. About that time Moore has gone ballistic and starts kicking at them as he is thrown into the back seat with his handcuffs giving severe pain. He is then thrown out onto the pavement with on officer to his feet, another with knees to his chest and another with a knee to his neck. Hypoglycemia is a strange term, so I looked it up:

“Extreme low blood sugar levels which can also cause a variety of problems within your central nervous system. Early symptoms include weakness, lightheadedness, and dizziness. Untreated, severe low blood sugar can be very dangerous. It can result in seizures, loss of consciousness, or death.”

So, with a knee on Michael Moore’s carotid artery, restricting the low BLOOD SUGAR flow to his brain, what would you expect would happen? Michael Moore passing a huge blast of gas and knocking the police unconscious from methane poisoning? Would you say Moore’s obesity triggered his death? I think the technique of knee to the neck should be a basis of a lawsuit and justification for MURDER charges as much as I dislike him. All of Hollywood would demand it.

[Bob434]

you have to prove in court that all the arteries were shut off and the airway shut off if you are arguing the knee caused asphyxia

If you argue asphyxia, there are two points to consider- heart attacks cause asphyxia (Though hte first report said no asphyxia) so you’ll have to prove the knee was the sole cause of asphyxia, and not the heart attack

(here is the coronoer’s medical report

“””””The updated report states that on May 25, George Floyd experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by a law enforcement officer(s).
The new Medical Examiner’s report also notes other significant conditions such as arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease; fentanyl intoxication; and recent methamphetamine use.”””””)

if he is going to be convicted of murder-

point two- the drug Fentanyl, a very powerful opioid, causes asphyxia- people who overdose on opioids stop breathing- so again- you’ll need to prove he died of the knee and not the drug- Remember, floyd was complaining about not being able to breathe well while he was still sitting in his own car before the arrest took place- so the defense will be arguing the drugs likely had a major role as did his cardiopulmonary arrest- If he’s to be convicted of murder, and not something like negligent homicide, it will need to be proved that the knee was the sole cause of death, and not the man’s own overuse of Fentanyl which caused Fentnyl intoxication-

If you’re going to go at this objectively- then all these points need to be considered and a determination of which was the actual cause- Was it the heart attack caused by George fighting the cops while he was inside the car? Was he havign a heart attack as he fell outside the car? Did it happen while he was restrained? Was it the drug? The knee did not cut off his airway- I’ve seen the video from across the street- it didn’t appear to me the second cop was compressing the man’s chest- but the video was shaky so it eas hard to tell-

All these things will come into play in court- it will be the prosecution’s job to prove murder and the knee was the cause— if that’s what they are going for- they will have to prove that - the two points in the medical examiner’s report also can cause asphyxiation- Baden or the woman is going to have to prove there was ‘mechanical asphyxiation’ since one of them are the ones that dispute the original findings- Again there are a couple of arteries that deliver blood flow to brain- not just the one- an usually you need to compress them all to cause the flow to stop enough that the person passes out- and just because a person passes out doesn’t mean they stop breathing- (Watch mma fights- you’ll see them breathing when they’ve passed out)

The carotid does supply blood- but so doesn’t several other arteries-

It’s going to be an uphill slog for the prosecution to prove it was the knee if there has been no ‘mechanical damage’ (which would explain why first report found no asphyxiation- ) IF the conviction is going to be MURDER as you like to type it-

[Bob434]

two quick points- you said the first medical examiner report was ‘whitewashed’- but that is simply your opinion- you have nothing to prove it was a whitewash, or that baden’s report is more accurate- it’s just tour feeling on the subject- There are several things baden said that he can’t back up with evidence- and he’s been very wrong on high profile cases in the past- so to suggest his report is the truth, while the first report is a lie that ‘whitewashes the truth’ is just your opinion only- Biden beign wrong before on cases is fact, not opinion- and the thigns he said that can’t e backed up medically with evidence is fact, not opinion- if you know of evidence he has stated that back up his claim that asphyxiation from knee was the cause I’ll be happy to take a look- but he gave an opinion without providing evidence- as far as i know- The first report stated facts- ‘no evidence of asphyxiation’ I believe was the term- and the followup stated evidence- evidence for ‘cardiopulmonary attack, and heart problems, and drug use- all of which can and do cause the heart to top which in turn stops blood flow to brain-

Second, the second reports by baden or the woman claimed ‘mechanical asphyxiation’ yet no evidence is given to support such a claim that i know of (remember, it’s not just one artery that would cause death by mechanical asphyxiation’ - there was no evidence to prove the chest was compressed to the point that his diaphragm couldn’t work as Baden suggested it had (It was just his opinion that it ‘could have happened’, nor that his neck’s arteries were sufficiently blocked to cause ‘death by knee’

Again- the prosecution has a tough hill to climb for murder charge- homicide- negligent, perhaps- but murder? I don’t see it happening, but could be wrong of course-

[jonrick46]

Thank you for your phenomenal explanation. The Mayo illustration did not tell the full story. However the Baden term “Mechanical asphyxiation” tells what happened to cause Floyd’s death. It is exactly what I have been describing: The restricted blood flow into the brain. How does your physiological description explain how this restricted blood flow caused brain death? My thinking is the area of the Common Carotid did it.

[jonrick46]

Cardiac arrest because of what? The Baden team said it was due to “Mechanical asphyxiation.” Look up the term. I think their description is accurate.

[grey_whiskers]

Cardiac arrest because of what? The Baden team said it was due to “Mechanical asphyxiation.” Look up the term. I think their description is accurate.

A number of people online on other sites have self-identified as MDs and coroners and said that it is almost impossible to tell post mortem, what exactly caused cardiac arrest, in a wide variety (they listed some) of circumstances.

I have over 80 tabs open and I'm not going to go looking.

[jonrick46]

I think when they are cutting into tissues and examining them through a microscope and, with other advanced techniques, the Baden team got a good idea at what happened. It is not my opinion. It is a close look at what they reported. I am finding a lot of gaps in the posts on this thread. I just want to give the information they are missing—not my opinion. I am sure Dr. Allecia Wilson of the University of Michigan and the President of the Michigan Association of Medical Examiners knows her field of forensic pathology well. You may demonize Dr Baden, but his reputation on high profile cases, such at the runaway train trial of the Phil Spector murder trial for the death of Lana Clarkson and the Jeffry Epstein suicide, are notable. To second guess their conclusion in the Floyd autopsy makes me wonder what is really going on with this thread.

[jonrick46]

In my reply to you, I mistakenly wrote, “J. Alexander Kueng with knee on the chest.” The correct description was his knee(s) on Floyd’s back. I don’t have direct knowledge of what such pressure on the back does. However, when I played football, I had the wind knocked out of me several times when hit with my belly on the ground. I suppose that is how Floyd felt as his oxygen deficient brain began shutting down his ability to breathe.

[Carborundum]

I am afraid I cannot help you here. Although I think I completely understood Dr. Baden’s opinion in the Epstein case from the SDNY lockup, in this Minnesota case, I do not have a clue. I do not remember ever hearing the term “mechanical asphyxiation” before, and in the present context its meaning is not at all clear to me.

Not that in my experience, pathologists are particularly gifted in dictating reports that include appropriate work choices. Trust me on that. Seen more than one poor bloke screwed over by the system as a result.

[Gene Eric]

>> George Floyd had ‘violent criminal history’: Minneapolis police union chief

Irrelevant

[jonrick46]

True. Cardiac arrest may come from the stress of a physical event. However, we see a knee down on a man’s carotid artery. That physical evidence is strong enough to consider it as the main cause of the cardiac arrest. You see, it is a chain of events: The cut off of blood flow to the brain, cuts off the supply of oxygen and glucose (sugar). This quickly causes brain death, like you would see from a person who has drowned. This brain death stops the lungs from the process of breathing. People who have drowned need to get their lungs working through artificial respiration quickly. Without the flow of oxygen from the lungs, the heart stops beating. Many times the heart is helped by repetitive pulses to the chest breast plate. However if the paramedics don’t get that person on a ventilator and the heart started with those electro-shock paddles, the person dies quickly.