I think when they are cutting into tissues and examining them through a microscope and, with other advanced techniques, the Baden team got a good idea at what happened. It is not my opinion. It is a close look at what they reported. I am finding a lot of gaps in the posts on this thread. I just want to give the information they are missing—not my opinion. I am sure Dr. Allecia Wilson of the University of Michigan and the President of the Michigan Association of Medical Examiners knows her field of forensic pathology well. You may demonize Dr Baden, but his reputation on high profile cases, such at the runaway train trial of the Phil Spector murder trial for the death of Lana Clarkson and the Jeffry Epstein suicide, are notable. To second guess their conclusion in the Floyd autopsy makes me wonder what is really going on with this thread.
[[To second guess their conclusion in the Floyd autopsy makes me wonder what is really going on with this thread.]]
You are second guessing the original ME report-
[[I am sure Dr. Allecia Wilson of the University of Michigan and the President of the Michigan Association of Medical Examiners knows her field of forensic pathology well.]]
As does the first ME-
[[examining them through a microscope and, with other advanced techniques, the Baden team got a good idea at what happened.]]
The first team did the same no doubt and didn’t find evidence-
Again- we’re talking about the claim that blood flow to brain restriction caused loss of oxygen to brain- but we’re not seeing any evidence to suggest that enough force was used all around the neck to cause that- He gave an opinion- She gave an opinion, unless they have presented evidence
I am unaware of- Dr Baden had every opportunity to discuss the evidence for his opinion on hannity’s show and failed to do so- He simply gave an opinion that the chest was compressed so that the diaphragm couldn’t work- and claimed the knee on the neck caused that-
[[It is a close look at what they reported.]]
I haven’t seen anything other than the very brief reports that said ‘mechanical asphyxiation’, without providing any evidence to support that a knee caused it IF we even allow that the death was asphyxiation which runs contrary to original findings
At this point there is no reason to assume the ones done by Baden and woman- who were hired for the the family- are any more legit than the first- The update to the first gave several possible reasons why oxygen could have been depleted IF that is what caused his death- which we’ve seen no evidence to suggestion t was- but even assuming it could have been, the ‘cardiopulmonary attack’ was a very probable cause of the lack of oxygen- IF again that’s what caused death- I haven’t seen any evidence that suggests that the brain died first, then the heart- All i see are opinions that ‘the knee was the cause of his murder’ which i find hard to believe for the reasons i listed in previous posts-
I am not ruling it out IF evidence comes forward to show that the brain died first, then the heart- due to lack of oxygen, and evidence to prove that his diaphragm was restricted due to compression to the point he could not get air- Not sure how they can prove that though unless the diaphragm shows ruptures or clotting from the pressure or something- This is what i mean about the lack of evidence in the reports claiming he was killed by ‘mechanical asphyxiation’- For mechanical asphyxiation to occur, usually there is evidence- physical evidence- ruptured vessels, bruises to key points- ligature marks bulging eyes or burst eye vessels etc etc etc- IF they are goign to claim ‘mechanical asphyxiation’ resulted in murder, then they are goign to have to prove it with evidence-
Usually what happens though is one side will give their opinion of what ‘could have happened’- while the other side gives an opposing opinion IF neither side has actual proof/evidence to support the claims, and the jury will be reminded that they have to be sure, beyond a reasonable doubt, in order to give their verdict- The burden on the prosecution though is much higher- because the charge is so serious- the defendant don’t forget is innocent till proven guilty- and for serious charges, it takes a lot to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that one is guilty-
You mentioned biden and epstein case- his opinion didn’t change anything- but then again, it didn’t go to court- so who knows- but in other cases- he has been way off- I believe he did the casey anthiony case- oj, and other high profile cases where his findings were not instrumental because they conflicted with other experts- I believe he testified for the defense in oj trial and was wrong about the glove/blood and other evidence- - you can look the cases up to find out where he was off- soemoen mentioned a few cases yesterday- i can’t recall them now-
anyways- We’ll see how the case goes- I don’t beleive a knee was sufficient to cut off enough blood flow to brain- as there are several arteries that supply blood to brain- I think we will fidn out he had heart attack which caused a ‘cardiopulmonary event’, and that the drug he was high on likely was a major cause as well- as it is a well known cause of that kind of death- I think we’ll see negligence of some kind- but will it be ruled gross indifference or not? We’ll see- it was obvious he was holding him down till ambulance got there- which the police had called for- so that doesn’t go to ‘gross negligence’ totally- or gross indifference’ rather- and the fact he said he had him on his stomach because of his condition on the drugs (because he might throw up) shows it isn’t gross indifference too to an extent-
I personally think he should have used another hold while police got a good reading on pulse- and he should have listened to the people asking for them to check- at least check- this might go to a bit of carelessness on his part- but how much? The ambulance was right there, making it’s way to the scene- and he was concerned the crowd was growing hostile and might impede the scene- which is why he pulled out the spray- so he was having to deal with two issues at once- in a stressful situation- i think he made the wrong decision to wait for ambulance to makes it’s way there, but the evidence will ultimately show whether his knee was cause of death or not- I don’;t think it could have- you and others think it did- we’ll see what jury thinks with more evidence than we have-
[[We’ll see- it was obvious he was holding him down till ambulance got there- which the police had called for- so that doesn’t go to ‘gross negligence’ totally- or gross indifference’ rather]]
Sorry- it’;s late- not thinking well- meant ot say- their calling the ambulance shows there wasn’t a total ‘gross indifference to human life’ as does the fact that they had him on belly to try to avoid trouble from throwing up- I think these poitns will be brought out by defense to counter the claim that he ‘murdered floyd’ and was ‘gossly indifferent’ to his life as many have claimed-
The knee hold was an approved hold- and had been used many times without problems- IF it is proven to have been the cause of death though, the policy will be changed- and rightfully so- There are likely other holds they could do on drug addled people that resist violently- the knee on neck wa likely one of several choices he could have made- I personally think he was dying from heart problems as he had repeatedly claimed he ‘couldn’t breath long before he was on ground- and was acting like soemone high on a drug that does cause death quite a bit- when abused