Posted on 11/01/2019 8:25:23 AM PDT by grundle
Helen Moore of Detroit leads a group of protesters outside the federal courthouse in Cincinnati last Thursday.
"Every school in the country would be affected," one expert said. "There could be a lot of litigation."
After two years of struggling to pass any of his community college classes, Jamarria Hall, 19, knows this for certain: His high school did not prepare him.
The four years he spent at Detroit’s Osborn High School were “a big waste of time,” he said, recalling 11th and 12th grade English classes where students were taught from materials labeled for third or fourth graders, and where long-term substitutes showed movies instead of teaching.
What’s less certain, however, is whether Hall's education in Detroit’s long-troubled school district was so awful, so insufficient, that it violated his constitutional rights.
That’s the question now before a federal appeals court that heard arguments last week in one of two cases that experts say could have sweeping implications for schools across the country.
(Excerpt) Read more at nbcnews.com ...
As a former Detroit high school teacher, I am skeptical as to this person’s claim. Any student who had good attendance, did his homework, and gave a damn about learning could get a good education. With a B average, he/she could probably get a scholarship to a state university.
We didn't have kindergarten, so my mom taught me numbers and the alphabet BEFORE first grade.
I went to a reservation school, and nobody had any money, but if the family was intact--mine was, thank goodness--most of us not only learned to read and write, but learned to LEARN.
My parents had nothing, were working in their early teens, barely got out of high school, and (my dad in particular) always felt somewhat ashamed of not being better educated.
Hell, he was better educated than I, through hard work and facing up to challenges, and he lived the American dream.
When something wasn't working, he changed it!
His children were encouraged to read and to think at every opportunity, and went on to excel in academics, music, languages, and to a large degree, life.
“I’ve read through the U.S. Constitution for years, and I still can’t find a constitutional right to a free education anywhere.”
It’s in the State Constitution.
L
What Detoilet schools need is more teachers like this one...Big Country Roy Nelson!
“Nelson worked briefly as a warehouse worker in 1999. Nelson originally began training in Brazilian jiu-jitsu under UFC veteran John Lewis in 2000 and after working as a school teacher for a few years, Nelson began his own career in mixed martial arts”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Nelson_(fighter)
Hey, my autocorrect does that all the time!
Opportunities abound.
US Army.
US Navy.
US Marine Corps.
US Air Force.
US Coast Guard.
Thanks grundle. I seem to recall a lot of Partisan Media Shill bitching when a Republican Governor took control of the pointless, useless "public" schools in Detroit.
Article VIII, Michigan Constitution
Text of Section 1:
Encouragement of Education
Religion, morality and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged
Text of Section 2:
Free Public Elementary and Secondary Schools; Discrimination
The legislature shall maintain and support a system of free public elementary and secondary schools as defined by law. Every school district shall provide for the education of its pupils without discrimination as to religion, creed, race, color or national origin. Nonpublic schools, prohibited aid.
The Michigan Constitution says that the state shall provide each student a free education. It does not say that the student will be educated. The only way a student will be educated is if the student himself desires to be educated and puts fort the effort to be educated. The duty to do so is that of the student and the parents (if any).
Since the onus is on the student to be educated it would be impossible to hold the state responsible for the education of a student and it would be damaging to society to try to do so.
The old adage ‘You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink’ applies.
As much as I think a good academic K-12 education is a good and a necessity on the way to becoming a mature and productive adult, no I don’t think it is a “constitutional right”. In fact there was a time in the early republic when “public” education was not the norm. And since that time no constitutional amendment has added “a good education” to the Bill of Rights.
It’s all by design...’Keeping ‘em on the Plantation’.
Make government unions illegal. Their paramount concern is teachers, NOT students.
Nice try...
If you really understand what passes for Curriculum (Common Core, Whole Language and the like) I think you might take a different stand
Maybe, but my take away from your response is the education is there if you will only accept it
What a farce
I was married to a teacher or almost 20 years and keep very close tabs on the quality of that which is provided and methodologies. I was blessed to attend the best High School in the Chicago Public School System and the rigor and quality was intense. Go look it up, Lane Tech High School. It was primarily a Vocational school and you had to apply to be admitted. It too is being softened to meet “social norms” and the ranking of what was once the top school in Illinois is now down in the mid 200’s
So please cease with the Poor Teachers nonsense and let’s all get serious. The creed of an Educator is to do so and not just have butts in seats indoctrinating them on condoms on cucumbers and social engineering. If you think that school is as good or better than it was say 20 years ago you are sorely mistaken.
In professional education at a corporate level the pressure is on to produce competent people to insure that the function they take on is done well. Yes, I have been involved in that realm for decades and my standards for the teachers and curriculum was very demanding. I managed it not only for the company I worked for but partners and affiliates as well. So take these poor teachers and apply the same rules, what quality of student are you producing. If you turn out consistently lower scores versus others teaching the same you are the problem
Where I played was International and so students were trained using the exact same curriculum to a high standard of excellence, it was mandatory.
The system is broken and there is no denying it, unless we change it generations of poorly educated snowflakes will be ripe for the picking by Democrats who offer them anything to get their vote
So, Pontiac, I await your response in hope that you understand the teachers job is to teach and if the student is incapable or challenged then they must take action to move them to a teacher who can deal with it. That is their role in the whole system as it has been for decades. If they cannot do it then they need to find another vocation
What’s happening in Detroit schools is disgraceful, but I don’t see this a problem courts are equipped to solve.
"The report notes that half of the illiterate population has either a high school diploma or a GED. That’s beside the point. Virtually the entire illiterate population has completed elementary school, the level at which reading is theoretically taught. That’s seven years of schooling (k-6), at a cost of roughly $100,000, for… nothing."
It's not just Detroit.
Rebuilding (New Orleans) After Katrina Hampered By An Illiterate Population
"Three years after Katrina, residents of New Orleans are still buried in a blizzard of government paperwork. But for thousands of storm victims seeking federal aid, the challenge is made more difficult by a little-known obstacle: More than 40 percent of the city’s adults lack the literacy skills to comprehend basic government forms. And recovery programs have done little to ease the burden."
He thinks it's because they have a lot of foreign students who pay big bucks to attend school there.
I wasn’t defending teachers.
I was saying that the state can not be necessarily be held responsible if the student is not educated.
I didn’t even mention teachers.
It is up to parents to hold teachers accountable if they are not teaching. If the student is not applying themselves the teacher should be informing the parent.
Ultimately it is the parent that has to ensure that the student is being educated and it is the student that is doing the educating. The teacher is supplying the knowledge and the student must consume that knowledge and integrate that knowledge into themselves.
Sure teacher accountability is important. If that comes from an administrator great. If it doesn’t the parent must do it. But far and above teacher or administrator the parent must ensure that the student is doing the learning, doing the studying and doing the homework. If the school has a poor curriculum the parent must do something about it or teach the student themselves or get tutors.
But a good student doesn’t even need a teacher.
My father who never graduated high school taught himself trigonometry and calculus in his fifties.
He also got his journeyman’s welder’s card on a self-study program.
Yes, we’ve mentioned those!
there is no education “right” but if an entity takes your money and then does not deliver, can’t they be sued over a unfulfilled contract?
You assume that, which makes a donkey out of you and me. I do think he needs to assume responsibility for his own education, but you don't know if he has or hasn't, the article doesn't state that...
“The old adage ‘You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink’ applies. “
Untrue. YOu feed him salt and you can make him drink
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