The Last Two Chapters of THE BELL CURVE by Herrnstein and Murray

The Archive ^ | 11.26.17 | Herrnstein and Murray

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Chickensoup.

[miss marmelstein]

To be perfectly frank, I’m not a huge fan of Murray’s. Just not.

[miss marmelstein]

Fer sure!

[SkyPilot]

I thought it was also interesting that whites really got shafted in the book as it showed the large gap between Asian and White IQs. No one talked about that little potato.

True.

Also, Murray said during an interview that he would have like to do a more in-depth analysis of the IQs of Jewish people (and especially Ashkenazi Jews). His co-author, Richard J. Herrnstein, was Jewish, and Murray said he didn't know his IQ, but assumed it was "extraordinarily high."

Even today, some in academic condemn claims of Ashkenazi Jewish intelligence with "Scientific Racism."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence

[miss marmelstein]

A person without “moral intelligence” is not awfully bright to me. Look at somebody like Tony Podesta - rich, successful, corrupt and with truly execrable taste in art. Yet, Murray might consider him loaded with cognitive intelligence.

[PGR88]

As Herrnstein and Murray predicted, America’s elites, who have taken over more control over peoples lives and the economy, have also created systems that actually reduce financial risk to themselves, while increasing it for others.

[rightwingcrazy]

“That hunger for power is a particular factor of intelligence.”

What an odd thing to say. A particularly intelligent person would inclined, I think, to question the merit of his hungers. Otherwise, he lets himself become a slave to them. How bright is that?

[cpdiii]

Much ugly truth that can not be said is in your post.

[P.O.E.]

People are not naturally angelic but self-interested — else, as Publius pointed out, governments would not be necessary in the first place

The difference is between enlightened self-interest & animal passion.

For centuries, man has striven to overcome the latter in favor of the former. The latter, being more powerful and pervasive, is now being used by the elite to climb further into that bubble of detachment.

[blam]

"Interesting, but now I am all depressed thinking about how 1994 was nearly a quarter of a century ago..."

Tell me. I retired at the end of 1994....I was given this book as a Christmas present that year

[blam]

80% of Jewish immigrants to the USA are Ashkenazi Jews.

[Fai Mao]

I think many people confuse IQ test for raw intelligence or mental capacity. They are not the same thing. There is, even in the best-designed IQ test a considerable amount of cultural knowledge and LEARNED problem-solving skills required for a high score.

What most IQ test measure is a combination of raw intelligence, problem-solving and cultural knowledge. This makes them difficult to apply to people that are not culturally similar. A person that has never been exposed to cultural items could not tell you what those items are regardless of how smart they are.

That is why IQ score typically rise with educational level. This has been shown by giving IQ test to students as they enter university. Their IQ - the same student - increases with each degree they achieve. If a student enters a university with an IQ of 100 they will typically graduate with an IQ of 115. If that same student then pursues and obtains an MA or MS their IQ has risen by another 5 points. Getting a Ph.D. raises the IQ still further. Why is this so? Because part of the education process is learning test-taking skills. In effect becoming educated allows you figure out things. (Or used to. I am not so sure this is as true as it once was)It isn’t that people with Ph.D.’s all started out as geniuses, they learned how to become a genius through acquiring problem-solving skills and developing mental discipline. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule.

(Note some test are better at screening for this than others and I am making a blanket statement. Please do not nit-pick. What I have written is generally accepted to be true.)

Thus, the charts in the Bell-curve show as much a lack of acculturalization and coping skills as they do low intelligence. The result, however; is the same. People that score lower on the test are going to, generally speaking, have less opportunity and fewer advantages in society. It doesn’t matter if they are just stupid or do not have the proper set of social and problem-solving skills. The solution is not to ignore the results or make arguments about them being kind, good, moral, or “differently intelligent” but to figure out how to maximize the acculturalization process among the less intelligent groups.

The poor, the less intelligent and the poorly acculturated can be fine, moral and polite people but they still have a problem with their IQ. Rather than simply giving them welfare or making AND ACCEPTING excuses for this we should help them raise their IQ.

[chalkfarmer]

He wrote a much more interesting book.
https://www.amazon.com/Real-Education-Bringing-Americas-Schools-ebook/dp/B001E2NXDY

[PapaBear3625]

I read The Bell Curve some years ago, and I agree with much that they say. One thing the authors don't give enough attention to, though, is the genetic principle of Regression toward the mean. Smart people will tend to have smart kids, but exceptionally smart people's kids will be more likely to be closer to average, than to be as exceptionally smart as the parent. Did you know that Albert Einstein had three children? And that his son became a professor of engineering? Not many people know of Albert's kids, because they were nowhere near the ability of their father.

The big problem facing the elites is that IQ is a major determinant of success, but that their offspring are not likely to be in the top 0.1% of IQ. That most of the people who will be in the top 0.1% of IQ will come from the middle class, and will have a competitive advantage over the kids of the elites.

Hence, the determined drive to cripple the educational system which educates the kids of the middle class. Hence the determined drive to import low-IQ serfs who will not be competitors.

[SkyPilot]

80% of Jewish immigrants to the USA are Ashkenazi Jews.

I didn't know that - thank you.

[Art in Idaho]

So many important paragraphs in these two chapters. The ones mentioned above have to be confronted if we are to survive as a nation. The low IQ people having the majority of babies will Cloward-Piven us to death.

Many other important points but I was struck with this paragraph:

"This is not the place, nor are we the people, to try to rewrite immigration law. Rut we believe that the main purpose of immigration law should be to serve America's interests. It should be among the goals of public policy to shift the flow of immigrants away from those admitted under the nepotistic rules (which broadly encourage the reunification of relatives) and toward those admitted under competency rules, already established in immigration law — not to the total exclusion of nepotism and humanitarian criteria but a shift. Perhaps our central thought about immigration is that present policy assumes an indifference to the individual characteristics of immigrants that no society can indefinitely maintain without danger."

We have to end chain migration, be very picky about only letting higher IQ skilled people emigrate here and stop Muslim immigration. Call me what you want but it's an objective matter of survival of our Sacred Republic long term.

[Albion Wilde]

I love this part:

Our policy prescription... is to return marriage to its formerly unique legal status. If you are married, you take on obligations. If you are not married, you don't. In particular, we urge that marriage once again become the sole legal institution through which rights and responsibilities regarding children are exercised. If you are an unmarried mother, you have no legal basis for demanding that the father of the child provide support. If you are an unmarried father, you have no legal standing regarding the child—not even a right to see the child, let alone any basis honored by society for claiming he or she is "yours" or that you are a "father."

[Albion Wilde]

Graduate & Professional Degree ping.

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[TheNext]

Blah blah blah.

The cognitive elite would have discovered brevity. Big words do not impress.

[TheNext]

The USA has been in decline since 1913. High IQ is irrelevant once a Mao type President wipes out the IQ class and replaces it with an impoverished 3rd world migration.

It is happening now and it is scary to any High IQ person who is aware. Discussing social solutions is wasteful because it is other directed and out of my control. A self directed approach, only matters, what can I, and like minded, do to survive a socially violent future.