The Last Two Chapters of THE BELL CURVE by Herrnstein and Murray

The Archive ^ | 11.26.17 | Herrnstein and Murray

[Chickensoup]

Smart people will tend to have smart kids, but exceptionally smart people’s kids will be more likely to be closer to average, than to be as exceptionally smart as the parent.

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True but in the regression of two people with IQs of 150 or 160 which is common in Silicon valet still will have children whose IQs my drop 15 to 40 points and still be one standard deviation above the mean. Big issue in the Palo Alto school system where some of the brightest in the country live and work.

In the book H & M do not focus on the outliers with high intelligence but on those folks 1, 2 and 3 standard deviations above the mean.

Agree totally with the crippling of middle class education and reasons for it. That is why the Asians, with a bigger pool and better education at certain levels will clean our clocks.

[Chickensoup]

Discussing social solutions is wasteful because it is other directed and out of my control. A self directed approach, only matters, what can I, and like minded, do to survive a socially violent future.

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Actually I think both can be productive endeavors.

[Chickensoup]

The intelligence that one is lucky to be born with, does not necessarily lead to a successful career or life. How many high IQ people have ever attained the success of professional athletes?
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There are no truer words than this, IQ has nothing to do with success in the real world.

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How many, or what percent, of high IQ people have ever reached the success of the “elite” business people with their millions or billions? How many or what percentage of the high IQ people have ever attained high leadership positions in government? BTW, does high intelligence lead to corruption, where they think they can get away with anything?

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Except for the gimmies, I would venture to say that most of the people in power in Washington are on the right side of the normal curve. at least in the first Standard Deviation.

Do I think that High I Qu leads to corruption? Absolutely and these chapters discuss the moral responsibility that High IQ people have to the rest of the population and to the culture.

[Art in Idaho]

Yes, our country is in danger. we cannot absorb the kind of people we have been taking in.

It's just reality. No spin, no fluff, no political correctness. We have to, as a country, deal with strict reality or we shall not survive.

[Chickensoup]

Murry’s next book should deal with gender differences in IQ. That would heat up the conversation to the white hot level.

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I think it is a great idea. The data is already there. IIRC there are more intelligent women than men but the men stand out and have the higher IQ range.

[Chickensoup]

It’s just reality. No spin, no fluff, no political correctness. We have to, as a country, deal with strict reality or we shall not survive.

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so true

[truth_seeker]

My job in the US Army over 40 years ago, included studying, understanding, using Aptitude testing.

Before and after that, the services have sought to improve their testing, to avoid built in reasons the tests might not be fair and valid for minority groups.

Try as they will the basic results remain largely unchanged: namely 15 IQ points, time and time again.

This same result has been found in civilian test revisions, adjustments, accommodations etc.

[kosciusko51]

The intelligence that one is lucky to be born with, does not necessarily lead to a successful career or life. How many high IQ people have ever attained the success of professional athletes? How many, or what percent, of high IQ people have ever reached the success of the “elite” business people with their millions or billions? How many or what percentage of the high IQ people have ever attained high leadership positions in government? BTW, does high intelligence lead to corruption, where they think they can get away with anything?

Interesting questions. First, what is the criteria for success? Is it just financial, or is there more to it than that?

How many high IQ people have ever attained the success of professional athletes? Considering that a large majority of pro athletes are broke within 5 years of leaving their respective leagues, I would say that a majority of the intelligent people do better than a majority of the pro athletes.

How many, or what percent, of high IQ people have ever reached the success of the “elite” business people with their millions or billions? Considering that the tech elite are also high IQ types, they probably do quite well. Now some of the business type have obtained their success by who they know rather than what they know.

How many or what percentage of the high IQ people have ever attained high leadership positions in government? Are there any statistics out there for this information? Considering that everyone that the Dems run is "the smartest person ever", I think the number would be quite high. /s

BTW, does high intelligence lead to corruption, where they think they can get away with anything? Certainly for high IQ sociopaths. In any event, IQ has nothing to do with morality.

[adorno]

Okay.

What about my last question?

BTW, why does it seem that the subject of high IQ comes up so often on FR?

[Beagle8U]

Women are differently different than men. In some ways they are smarter than men, but some things seem beyond their ability to learn.

[Chickensoup]

BTW, why does it seem that the subject of high IQ comes up so often on FR?

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Most likely because it is an important subject to discuss with social and moral implications that has been gagged at least since the mid eighties. There is no place to have this conversation except on line at certain sites like FR.

Heck I can remember my stats prof in the 90’s in grad school trying to talk in code about the issues of IQ and testing, and finally giving up. We live gagged lives. One can talk more freely here, than most places.

[Chickensoup]

Women are differently different than men. In some ways they are smarter than men, but some things seem beyond their ability to learn.

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I agree.

[adorno]

Most likely because it is an important subject to discuss with social and moral implication

I feel so sorry for the oppressed high IQ people.

While I can relate to the burdens of being so smart...

I still don't see the need, as some people here do, to present this subject so often on any web site, or on any forum.

What it "seems like" to me, is that the subject is a favorite of so many who like to bring it up to talk about themselves as being so much brighter than the average (or lower than average) folks out there.

The high IQ issue is brought up very often when people want to talk about certain races and cultures and ethnic groups not being so bright and having lower than average intelligence. I question the wisdom of those that like to brag about their intelligence and their need to put down others they deem to be "lesser". Oftentimes, being wise is more important than possessing the higher intelligence. Heck, I question the intelligence of people who like to brag about their IQs, while not being able to show common sense when addressing people and issues affecting certain classes of people. . The "social intelligence" of the high IQ sector, is very often questionable.

[Chickensoup]

I feel so sorry for the oppressed high IQ people.

While I can relate to the burdens of being so smart...

I still don’t see the need, as some people here do, to present this subject so often on any web site, or on any forum.

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I hope you are joking. This article is about how to manage a world that has so many different varieties of people in it. So it is more fair and that all sorts of gifts can be honored and included, not just IQ.

I have never seen freepers drag out their IQs to brag on. Perhaps I have not been invited to the threads.

[right way right]

“The “social intelligence” of the high IQ sector, is very often questionable.”

Just chalk it up to Asperger’s syndrome and smile.

[adorno]

I have never seen freepers drag out their IQs to brag on.

That's not how they do it.

They do it by indirectly and directly pointing to "studies" that indicate that people of certain races and certain regions and certain countries and certain cultures, have lower than average intelligence or lower than average IQs.

I supposed it makes them feel good about themselves being of the "superior" race and superior regions of the world.

Is high IQ or higher intelligence, a motive for a superiority complex? No doubt that a lot of people feel the need to continuously flaunt their self-worth when it comes to their beliefs that they have superior intellect.

[adorno]

I doubt that people with Asperger’s go around feeling intellectually superior to others.

But, I get your point.