Posted on 10/29/2017 2:35:42 AM PDT by jalisco555
The European Parliament's president says no one will ever recognize Catalonia as an independent country.
Antonio Tajani says Catalonia's independence referendum was illegal and state of law should be restored. He also spoke against EU mediation, saying the crisis is an internal Spanish issue.
Catalonia's separatist leader on Saturday called on Catalans to peacefully oppose Spain's takeover.
(Excerpt) Read more at usnews.com ...
Massive headaches we get for free. Make one for the EU, which is the author of many of those free massive headaches, and spread the joy.
To join the US there is a legal process spelled out and the people have to vote on the matter.
Should we spell out a legal process for leaving? Probably. But the last chance we had resulted in a major war because one side was having a hissy fit over losing an election. Democrats do not seem to change.
In the case of most of the countries of the world there was no vote. In the case of Catalonia I think france gave it to Spain. No one asked the people of Catalonia what they thought of the matter.
Now Spain is supposedly a representative form of government which means that they should allow people to vote if they want to stay or go.
The UK does it on a regular basis. Czechoslovakia voted to split and did so peacefully.
Yugoslavia did not allow such votes and ended up a mess.
In Iraq and Turkey you have the Kurds who would like their own nation but are not being allowed to vote on the matter.
Someone once said that any religion you can not peaceably leave is not a valid religion but a cult.
Perhaps the same could be applied to countries.
” In the case of Catalonia I think france gave it to Spain. “
It was a kingdom that was joined to other kingdoms via marriage, the union of crowns, and (insert complicated European history here), leading to this region becoming part of the modern Spanish state.
There are lots of things the past 2000 years that didn’t exactly go up for a vote. That wasn’t how it was done, and hindsight isnt an excuse to now cry ‘unfair” now.
“Now Spain is supposedly a representative form of government which means that they should allow people to vote if they want to stay or go.”
No sane nation does this.
“The UK does it on a regular basis. “
Once =/= regular basis.
“Czechoslovakia voted to split and did so peacefully.”
the operative thing to remember is that that was not a secession via UDI, but a mutual dissolution. This is not.
” Someone once said that any religion you can not peaceably leave is not a valid religion but a cult.
Perhaps the same could be applied to countries.”
So a nation that doesn’t allow any willy-nilly faction to break pieces off because (insert feels here) is an illegitimate nation?
The only support that matters is the support of the people. This idea that international recognition is needed is a collectivist notion.
In 1776 we might have had 3 in 10 pushing for independence here.
“Should we spell out a legal process for leaving? Probably. But the last chance we had resulted in a major war because one side was having a hissy fit over losing an election. Democrats do not seem to change.”
It’s not too late to give California a legal way out, in case they’re serious.
No Catalonia wants out of Spain, NOT the EU. The pro-independence parties want to be part of the EU, even though it opposes Catalonian independence.
More then once. Why do you think Northern Ireland exists? They voted to stay part of the UK.
Having the joining process run in reverse does not quite cut it but it should be at least as involved.
Sort of like ending marriages are more complicated then beginning them.
Even counting that, that would make 2 public votes in the past 1000 years.
And public votes have really only been a thing in the Empire for about a century.
So 14 or so public votes in the past 100 years is pretty good. And also pretty common.
If the Constitution can be amended, the Union itself can be liquidated, too. But civil war is not the way to do it. There should have been a legal process in 1860. The Federalist certainly speaks of war between the states as a distinct probability under the Articles of Confederation. So why not improve the Constitution yet further with an Amendment setting forth a process of whole or partial dissolution, making it possible, but a remote possibility, delayed and sublimated with a long procedure, so that the aggrieved state has time to think it over and deliberate before taking the plunge.
Yep.
That would change when Spain gives up.
Colonies and overseas possessions =/= integrated parts of the metropolitan nation like Catalonia is to Spain.
We are talking about something like Wales, and Scotland, not The British Indian Ocean Territory or Belize.
[[Nothing like having an export base for terror right on the European continent.]]
They have Paris , London and others already .
catalans are extreme mercantile free marketeers - that is why they are so prosperous.
I must admit that there are two rather large nations, one in particular with multiple large axes to grind with the Euros, who could really upend the situation if they so choose. Any guesses, FReepers? ;-)
That said, what this may really boil down to is if a significant number of Catalans are willing to risk all. Or, to put it another way, to “mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our Sacred Honor”. If the pro-independence leaders are arrested and their followers slink off home, the rebellion will be crushed. As has been stated elsewhere, Catalonia has little to fight with, in the way of arms.
But, if 10’s of thousands of Catalans physically interpose themselves to protect the rebel leaders, and things turn violent, then as Catalan casualties mount, IF they hold fast, the Catalans’ cause will strengthen, and the 10’s of thousands may well increase to 100’s of thousands. Ultimately, what would Spain do? In this day and age, I do not think they can shell Barcelona.
Its over. Spain wins the short game. The Catalan Indy leaders have been given asylum in Belgium and they are there already.
That should put a chill on the EU.
Who wins the long game is up for grabs.
It is a pretty amazing thing and quite a logical way of going about it.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.