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The conservative media's civil war over Ted Cruz 'birtherism'
Washington Post ^ | 01/14/2016 | By Callum Borchers

Posted on 01/14/2016 8:19:48 AM PST by SeekAndFind

If you thought some in the conservative media lost their minds over President Obama's birth certificate, you were right. But the current brouhaha over Ted Cruz's place of birth -- in which Donald Trump reprises his role as chief instigator -- might be even more compelling, in its own way, because of the civil war it has sparked on the right side of the press.

Sadly, there is no way that Ted Cruz can continue running in the Republican Primary unless he can erase doubt on eligibility. Dems will sue!

-- Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 13, 2016

Witness this week's heated exchange on MSNBC (of all places) between conservative provocateur Ann Coulter and Republican media strategist Liz Mair. Coulter insisted that Cruz -- born in Canada but a U.S. citizen from the moment he left the womb, thanks to his mother's citizenship -- is not eligible to be president. Mair asserted with equal force that Cruz is eligible and at one point charged that Coulter is "in no way conservative." Card revoked!

(Coulter is an ardent supporter of Trump, the GOP presidential front-runner; Mair heads the anti-Trump super PAC Make America Awesome.)

And Coulter -- for those keeping score -- has changed her position on this subject. That's awfully convenient, since no one would stand to gain more from Cruz's disqualification than Coulter's favorite candidate.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: birthers; blamecanada; conservatism; cruzlegalproblem; cubanhosereh; naturalborn; naturalborncitizen; seeyouincourtted; tedcruz
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To: Behind the Blue Wall
I take as an article of informed faith that Cruz has a CRBA. He'll produce it.

That will fuel another round of emotion-fueled debate.

If Cruz is the nominee, the DEMs will sue on the issue.

21 posted on 01/14/2016 8:52:02 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: SeekAndFind

Because if Coulter dropped the issue, no Dem would dare to raise it if Cruz were the nominee?


22 posted on 01/14/2016 8:54:41 AM PST by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: WENDLE

Mark Levin explained this very well. If your mother is a citizen AND has lived in the United States for any 10 years AND at least five of those were over the age of 14, you’re a natural-born citizen.

Andrew Napolitano has made the same case.

This is a phony issue and the Establishment types are pumping it because they know they can’t win on issues.

The Democrats will try to disqualify Cruz — as Hillary’s people tried to have 0bama disqualified — but as with 0bama, it will go nowhere.

Frankly, Alan Grayson belongs in a mental institution. Are you sure you want to take his side?


23 posted on 01/14/2016 8:55:13 AM PST by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: Red Steel

I believe so also. It is not helpful that he waited until 2014 to renounce his Canadian citizenship.


24 posted on 01/14/2016 8:55:14 AM PST by jospehm20
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To: SeekAndFind
The good arguments have all been presented, I think. You reject them all for various reasons. Why subject yourself to repetition, or ask somebody else to produce work just so you can reject it? Your mind is made up, conclusively.
25 posted on 01/14/2016 8:55:19 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: Carl Vehse

No she could’ve renounced her citizenship before he was born, or maybe just failed to register his birth in the US.


26 posted on 01/14/2016 8:56:23 AM PST by Behind the Blue Wall
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To: Cboldt

RE: The good arguments have all been presented, I think. You reject them all for various reasons.

I’ve never rejected any of them. My argument has been that there are GOOD ARGUMENTS present by both sides.


27 posted on 01/14/2016 8:58:03 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: WENDLE

At the time our constitution was adopted natural born citizen meant both soil and father blood. A wife derived her citizenship from her husband and her child also derived its’ citizenship from the father. So born on soil to a woman married a citizen father would make someone a natural born citizen.


28 posted on 01/14/2016 8:59:56 AM PST by jpsb (Whar)
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To: SeekAndFind
When comparing the language of the two acts (1790 - shall be considered as natural born) (1795 - shall be considered as citizens of the United States) with the language of the Constitutional clause itself - No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution

A logical conclusion would be that these two acts were passed in order to create a time frame to denote the Constitutional 'adoption' window.

29 posted on 01/14/2016 9:00:49 AM PST by MamaTexan (I am a person as created by the Law of Nature, not a person as created by the laws of Man.)
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To: TBP

That explanation is totally spurious . I can demonstrate that by pointing out that that contorted wishful thinking is simply not in the constitution.
The Constitution used terms of the day . “Natural born” was a special qualifier to “citizen” as apposed to “ foreign born” . It is really simple. It needs resolution before the Democrats pick the Court and the time. They will obtain an injunction and the Court will order that obama stay in office until it is resolved. want that?


30 posted on 01/14/2016 9:02:37 AM PST by WENDLE (Trump is not bought . He is no puppet.)
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To: AuntB

> “Ted would have to sue himself!”

That piece of crap you pulled is hearsay and is dated March 29, 2015 by a nobody writer with no credibility.

Ted can name parties to the suit that have stated in the press that he is ineligible and he could use in his defense the fact that he has qualified for the ballot on multiple primary states.

He needs to do this immediately as the democrats are going to launch a no holds barred barrage of accusations and lawsuits against his alleged ineligibility.

I have done the research. Ted is 100% eligible.


31 posted on 01/14/2016 9:03:24 AM PST by Hostage (ARTICLE V)
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To: SeekAndFind
I stand corrected. Looking at a short section of your posting history, the subject appears to be one of moderate interest to you, and that's about the only conclusion one is entitled to draw.

Still, the arguments have all been made, ad infinitum. My suggestion for finding the arguments is to read the constitution, what it says about citizenship is just a few sentences, and Rogers v. Bellei, chosen because Bellie and Cruz circumstances of birth and statutory citizenship are approximately "identical".

Most of the arguments, including the one Cruz offers, are nothing but rhetorical games.

32 posted on 01/14/2016 9:07:39 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: Carl Vehse
Natural born citizen (NBC) means of the soil and of the blood. It does not mean citizen at birth. The founders put the NBC clause into our constitution to prevent our military falling into the hands of someone not entirely loyal to this republic and its' constitution. Look no further than the current administration to see the wisdom of only allowing a NBC to serve as president.

Cruz is a naturalized citizen, naturalized via 1934 legislation which allows a child to gain citizenship thru its' mother. Prior to that legislation Cruz would not even be a citizen of the USA! A real NBC needs no legislation to be considered a citizen. A real NBC is a citizen naturally by just the facts of its' birth on soil to citizen parents.

33 posted on 01/14/2016 9:12:43 AM PST by jpsb (Whar)
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To: Timber Rattler
It’s the exact same kind of crap that was done to Palin, and the shame of it is that there are many otherwise respectable Freepers (and some who are not) who are up to their eyeballs in it this go around.

The conservative media ought to focus their sights on Hillary and Bernie and leave trashing our guys (Cruz and Trump) to the lame-stream media. They have plenty of blowhards to go around. Instead the play into the hands of the liberals and try and split the party over issues that liberals don't even give a second thought to.

It's almost like they have a gentleman's agreement whereby they convince conservatives to take the moral high ground against other conservative and lose to the democrats. Maybe that's how they keep their seat at the beltway cocktail parties.

34 posted on 01/14/2016 9:13:04 AM PST by Idaho_Cowboy (Ride for the Brand. Joshua 24:15)
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To: Godebert

Dred Scott a pragon of wisdom about what the Founders meant./sarc


35 posted on 01/14/2016 9:14:26 AM PST by Idaho_Cowboy (Ride for the Brand. Joshua 24:15)
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To: TBP

Utter nonsense.

Everyone has known, forever and ever, that you had to be born on American soil. Believe it or not, if you went to school anytime before 1990 or so, it was actually taught ....wait for it....in the classroom, as part of civics.

I’d like to remind everyone, that this was the crux of the Obama controversy: not his mom (who was too young to convey citizenship, not everyone even looked at that) but WAS he born in the US or not. It was that solitary fact, and no other, that consumed people into finding the elusive birth certificate. No one worried that they would find some foreign national that was his mom...it was WHERE he was born.

Sen Cruz indeed should seek a declarative judgment...and soon. Because if you don’t think that a desperate Hillary Clinton, perhaps facing indictment, won’t take his ass into every court in the country over this, then you are nuts. She was the original Obama “birther.”

How cool would it be to lose the presidential election to someone under indictment, because your candidate wasn’t ineligible, sports fans?


36 posted on 01/14/2016 9:18:20 AM PST by Dana1960
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To: TBP

I am a Trump supporter. I agree with Levin and Napolitano. Cruz is NBS by their logic. Cruz needs to go to court and get this taken care of. That is what Trump is saying too.


37 posted on 01/14/2016 9:20:18 AM PST by BigEdLB (Take it Easy, Chuck. I'm Not Taking it Back -- Donald Trump)
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To: Hostage; hoosiermama

“That piece of crap you pulled is hearsay and is dated March 29, 2015 by a nobody writer with no credibility.”

Here, you tell him what you think.
JB Williams is a writer on matters of history and American politics with more than 3000 pieces published over a twenty-year span. He has a decidedly conservative reverence for the Charters of Freedom, the men and women who have paid the price of freedom and liberty for all, and action oriented real-time solutions for modern challenges. He is a Christian, a husband, a father, a researcher, writer and a business owner. He is co-founder of action organizations The United States Patriots Union, a civilian parent organization for The Veteran Defenders of America. He is also co-founder of The North American Law Center, a citizen run investigative legal research and activism organization preparing to take on American’s greatest legal battles. Williams receives mail at: jb.uspu@gmail.com

[snip] Dec. 15, 2015 On the basis of all available evidence today, Ted Cruz is in fact holding a seat in the U.S. Senate illegally, with no documented proof of legal U.S. citizenship whatsoever, and proof of Canadian citizenship between the years of birth in 1970 and May 2014.

It is unfortunate that a person so many have placed their political faith in has proven willing to defraud his supporters for both votes and millions in campaign donations. But it is better we know now, than after he wins the GOP nomination only to be destroyed by Democrats later, using the same facts and evidence presented here.

What will the people do with this knowledge? Are they really motivated by restoration of Constitutional compliance, or mere political expediency?

(c) 2015 JB Williams - All Rights Reserved
http://www.newswithviews.com/JBWilliams/williams317.htm


38 posted on 01/14/2016 9:25:40 AM PST by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: SeekAndFind
So sorry! Fighting the cat off the computer desk, and she decided to hit *post* before I was actually done.:-)

--------

Anyway - with that Constitutional adoption window closed, typically people born abroad to citizens were considered citizens, but they were naturalized ones.

North Noonday Mining Co vs Orient Mining Co found in The Federal Reporter, page 527, Copyright 1880.
All persons born or naturalized In the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States. A person born in a foreign country out of the Jurisdiction of the United States whose father is not a citizen of the United States can only become a citizen by naturalization.

Wong Kim Ark, 1898
A person born out of the jurisdiction of the United States can only become a citizen by being naturalized, either by treaty, as in the case of the annexation of foreign territory, or by authority of congress, exercised either by declaring certain classes of persons to be citizens, as in the enactments conferring citizenship upon foreign-born children of citizens,..

Citizenship of the United States, Expatriation, and Protection Abroad, By United States. Dept. of State, Page 141, 1906
A person born in a foreign country, out of the jurisdiction of the United States, whose father is not a citizen of the United States, can only become a citizen by naturalization. The foreign born son becomes a citizen by being himself naturalized, or by the naturalization of the father during the minority of the son.

----

You at least appear to understand both sides of the argument. Wish I could say the same for others.

39 posted on 01/14/2016 9:27:54 AM PST by MamaTexan (I am a person as created by the Law of Nature, not a person as created by the laws of Man.)
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To: Dana1960
Believe it or not, if you went to school anytime before 1990 or so, it was actually taught ....wait for it....in the classroom, as part of civics.

According to Cruz, the State of Texas was teaching me *swamp theories* during high school government class. LOL!

40 posted on 01/14/2016 9:29:56 AM PST by MamaTexan (I am a person as created by the Law of Nature, not a person as created by the laws of Man.)
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