When the genuine trigger event happens, we'll know. This ain't it, on many levels.
Posted on 01/04/2016 10:33:31 AM PST by ObozoMustGo2012
Republican presidential hopeful Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas.) on Monday slammed the protesters who have taken over a federal building in rural Oregon, urging them to lay down their arms.
“Every one of us has a constitutional right to protest, to speak our minds,†Cruz told reporters at campaign event in Iowa, according to NBC News.
“But we don't have a constitutional right to use force and violence and to threaten force and violence on others,†he said. “And so it is our hope that the protesters there will stand down peaceably, that there will not be a violent confrontation.†Cruz said he is praying for everyone involved in the dispute, particularly law enforcement officials who “are risking their lives.â€
The protesters, led by two sons of the Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, say they are taking a stand against a prison sentence for two landowners convicted of arson on federal property.
They’re also part of a group that frequently protests against federal government's management of Western lands. They protesters have told media outlets that they plan to stay on the refuge for years.
The standoff has put Republican presidential candidates on the spot, with some of them having expressed support in a similar dispute in 2014 between Bundy and the government over unpaid grazing fees.
The support for Bundy eroded when he began making racially charged statements in interviews.
Up until Monday, most of the GOP's White House contenders had refrained from speaking out on the Oregon dispute, but that is beginning to change.
Like Cruz, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) condemned the takeover at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, though he told an Iowa radio station that he sympathizes with the movement to shrink federal land holdings.
“You’ve got to follow the law. You cannot be lawless,†Rubio told KBUR in an interview highlighted by Buzzfeed. “We live in a republic. There are ways to change the laws of this country and the policies. And if we get frustrated with it, that’s why we have elections, that’s why we have people we can hold accountable.â€
Rubio lent some credit to the stated goals of the occupation, reported by local media to involve a small group of armed men with very few local residents. The group is objecting to federal land control and ownership and pushing for the federal land to be given to states or individuals.
“I agree that there is too much federal control over land, especially out in the western part of the United States. There are states, for example, like Nevada that are dominated by the federal government in terms of land holding, and we should fix it,†Rubio said, adding that it shouldn’t be done “in a way that is outside the law.â€
Among the 2016 hopefuls, Cruz has been one of the most vocal advocates for reducing federal land ownership, along with Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.).
Cruz led the charge against the Bureau of Land Management’s claims over property around the Red River in Texas, saying he wants to “protect landowners from federal overreach.â€
Rubio has been less vocal about federal land ownership, but his energy policy platform calls for more local and state control over federal property for oil and natural gas drilling or other uses.
Land management is a major political issue in Western states. Nationwide, the federal government owns and manages nearly 630 million acres, with most located west of the Mississippi River.
Cruz and Rubio have increasingly clashed in recent weeks, with both seeking to overtake Donald Trump in polls of the Republican race.
While Rubio is seeking to gain ground in New Hampshire, the first primary state, Cruz has taken the lead in Iowa, which will hold its caucuses on Feb. 1.
I liked the Milton Friedman reference - you two were very close, were you?
A rational immigration policy seems to be beyond most politicians.
Also I liked the semantic shift of "free vs. government-controlled' and "free vs. market price."
I believe that US residency and citizenship have value and that people need to earn it.
I also believe that buyer and seller should choose the price of goods rather than the government.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/ted-cruz-second-amendment-government-tyranny
Ted Cruz: 2nd Amendment Is ‘Ultimate Check Against Government Tyranny’
“The 2nd Amendment to the Constitution isn’t for just protecting hunting rights, and it’s not only to safeguard your right to target practice. It is a Constitutional right to protect your children, your family, your home, our lives, and to serve as the ultimate check against governmental tyranny — for the protection of liberty,” Cruz wrote to supporters in a fundraising email on Thursday, under the subject line “2nd Amendment against tyranny.”
Cruz may or may not, but Trump may or may not gain over this. Let’s see how this plays out and what the candidates say.
Click the link to see the map. Its unreal how much of our state is controlled by the feds.
http://extension.usu.edu/utahrangelands/images/uploads/web-images/land_ownership.jpg
A bridge too far...
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a great book and movie. A vivid expose of Montgomery’s arrogant stupidity. Eisenhower should have listened to Patton who said it wouldn’t work.
I have been following a lot of the BLM and EPA attacks on farmers and ranchers since my grandfather was a rancher. Here in Florida an ongoing battle of a similar sort was waged for 20 years by a farm family until just finally in 2015, the family won thanks to the efforts of the Pacific Legal Foundation. The foundation is funded by contributions and has an outstanding record in defending an individual’s property rights and free enterprise. Well worth a visit to their website where you can see some up to date battles and their progress through the courts. They deserve support and so do the ranchers.
‘apparently none of the candidates will- trump just said basically what cruz has said it appears’
Link? (To Trump’s statement.)
He has access to Wisdom.
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He has access to nothing but more politically inspired surrender. Just another politician.
Look, you can sue the feds, but in the meantime the state should re-take the lands, after clearly declaring the lands were unconstitutionally under feds control and explaining why fed occupation was unconstitutional.
Don’t sue the feds, just tell them the land is the state’s not the fed’s and why, and tell the feds that as of such and such a date, the lands will belong to the state.
Bottom line is the government wants the rancher’s land. They have reduced grazing, then stopped grazing, fenced the rancher’s water sources, prevented them from accessing part of their privately owned land, charged and arrested them going back several years, searched their property and home.
The government did the same thing with the Bundys, they have done the same with many ranchers here in the west, just most don’t have the ability to fight them and give in. They are doing this because they can. It is not about grazing on public land, it is forcing sale of private land.
The protesters are there simply to put the government on notice and to support the rancher. It’s harder to steal if there are witnesses. The government already owns most of the land in the west but they won’t be happy until they have it all.
If Trump would have told them to stand down what would the Trump supporters say or think ?
It’s amazing how all of a sudden the Trump supporters are so concerned about our freedoms with this situation but yet could care less about Trump’s position on the renewing of the patriot act and the NSA’s illegal bulk data collection.
I’m not worried about Trump. This is about Cruz lying about the Constitution. For a “Constitutional Scholar” he is DEAD WRONG and STUPIDLY so.!
The following article from Oct., 2015 has lots of information. Mr. Maupin, in the following excerpt, was an expert witness for the first trial and talked about preventive land burns, and how they used to be done with private and BLM coordination, which is what the Hammonds did in at least one case. Maupin used to work for the Feds.
http://www.thefencepost.com/news/18847695-113/two-members-of-oregons-hammond-family-to-serve
EXCERPT:
Why the Hammonds?
“The story is like an onion, you just keep peeling back the layers,” Maupin said.
In an effort to stave off what they feared was a pending Clinton/Babbitt monument designation in 2000, a group of ranchers on the scenic Steens Mountain worked with Oregon Representative Greg Walden, a republican, to draft and enact the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Act that would prevent such a deed. The ranchers agreed to work with special interest “environmental” groups like the aggressive Oregon Natural Desert Association and others to protect the higher-than 10,000 foot breathtaking peak.
A number of ranchers at the top of the mountain traded their BLM permits and private property for land on the valley floor, allowing the anti-grazing groups to create a 170,000 acre wilderness, with almost 100,000 acres being “cow-free.”
“The last holdouts on that cow-free wilderness were the Hammonds,” explained Maupin. And because the Hammonds have large chunks of private property in the heart of the cooperative management area, they carried a target on their backs.
“It’s become more and more obvious over the years that that the BLM and the wildlife refuge want that ranch. It would tie in with what they have,” said Inglis.
The Hammonds also lost their ability to water cattle on one BLM permit when refuge personnel drained a watering hole that the Hammonds had always used.
End excerpt.
BTW, I think that the additional fines the Hammonds face ($200,000??) will force them to sell most or all of their ranch. Perhaps a “gofundme” account to pay the fine and lawyers would be in order.
Since 2008.
Trump hasn’t weighed in yet. And I would be just as disappointed.
When the genuine trigger event happens, we'll know. This ain't it, on many levels.
“I’m not worried about Trump. This is about Cruz lying about the Constitution. For a “Constitutional Scholar” he is DEAD WRONG and STUPIDLY so.!”
And would appear to be self contradicting, going by post 182.
At this point in time its a hypothetical question.
What will the Trump supporters say and think if Trump were to tell them to stand down ?
Will they change their criticism of Ted Cruz for saying to stand down ?
Stack and pack is exactly what the Seattle city council is actively working on, as they make plans to eliminate the zoning for single family housing and add many upper floors to apartment buildings.
If that doesn’t convince people, I don’t know what will.
You will not believe the openly communist statements in the above link.
Shays’ Rebellion also comes to mind. Also the Bonus Army break up.
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