Open Letter to the Pro and Anti Trump Freepers

I'm in the mood to ramble a bit so please excuse me for this rather long-winded vanity. Feel free to move on to another thread if you wish. Or you can pour yourself your favorite adult beverage and read on if you dare.

No, it's not one of those infamous swan-song "I'm leaving and I'm not coming back" vanities. We used to have a name for those kind of vanities but it slipped my mind. You should all be so lucky! That will never happen. Been here since the very beginning (changed my screen name back in '97) and I'm sticking it out to the end. So you guys are stuck with me unless I get the zot treatment or I check out of this world. I don't intend either to happen for a very long time.

So I'm coming off a long summer vacation and had some extra time to spend here recently. These are definitely interesting times we are living in. As the 2016 election season heats up, I think we are in for quite a ride. Which leads me to the motivation to write this vanity.

The Donald Trump phenomenon has caught everybody by surprise. When he jumped into the race just about two months ago, we all saw it as some much needed comic relief. Most of us figured he'd be out of the race in a matter of a few weeks in his typical spectacular fashion and we'd get back to serious business. I don't think any of us predicted he'd be topping the polls and by a rather comfortable margin at that. Even after making a series of blunders that would run the campaign of just about anybody else off the rails.

It is safe to say that nobody has ever seen the likes of Donald Trump before in a presidential campaign. We are like people on the ground seeing a 747 jet flying over us sideways at a 90 degree angle. We can't take our eyes off of it because we are waiting for it to crash. We are amazed however that it hasn't crashed already and that it is somehow keeping itself up in the air. Of course, we are all rooting that it finds a way to right itself so that it can make a safe landing (we are wishing for that, aren't we?).

So back to Trump a little later. After taking some time to study the other candidates in the race, I am convinced that we have perhaps the strongest field of presidential candidates ever assembled for the Republican Party. We have a total of 17 major candidates and with the exception of just a few of them, I would be proud to have any one of them as our next president.

I especially want to point out the virtues of Ted Cruz and Ben Carson. Two finer men can probably not be found to lead our nation. These are truly exceptional people with a long list of accomplishments, solid conservative values and they are both terrific family men. The accomplishments of Ted Cruz need not be rehashed here as any Freeper worth his/her salt will already be well familiar with them. But if you haven't had a chance to explore the resume of Ben Carson, please take the time to do so. You will not be disappointed.

So on one side you have Donald Trump and on the other side you have these very fine conservative candidates who are inarguably better credentialed than Donald Trump to be our next president.

Donald Trump. Where does one begin? Had Trump announced back in June that he was running for president as a DEMOCRAT, I don't think too many people would be shocked. Surprised yes, but shocked, probably not.

Well like him or not, we have him as a Republican candidate and up to now, he has been running away with this race, despite his many missteps and blunders. Trump's candidacy has been falsely declared dead more times than Bob Hope and Queen Elizabeth combined. Yet each time he bounces back stronger than ever. Even Keith Richards is getting jealous of Trump's almost supernatural resiliency.

What is it about Donald Trump? Many conservatives (including myself) have fallen under his spell. After years and years of seeing our conservative icons attacked and usually destroyed by a relentless left-wing media establishment, we are finally seeing somebody who can dish it right back and then some.

Now there is definitely something un-artful about the way Trump fights back. It is off-putting to most conservatives to see the way that he attacks back. All those Twitter messages that sound like they were written by some overgrown kid in his mother's basement, for example. But they seem to be not only working but setting the mainstream media back on their heels. They have no idea how to deal with this guy. And we love him for it. He's like the scrawny kid in school that fights back against the schoolyard bully, pins his arm behind his back, shoves his face into the mud and tells him to holler uncle. Many of us are cheering for this guy, even though deep down in our hearts, we know it probably won't end well in the long term.

So while this schoolyard brawl goes down between Trump and the media, our conservative candidates are finally starting to gain some traction. After strong debate showings on Thursday, both Ted Cruz and Ben Carson have taken to the road and are drawing large crowds and much needed donations to fuel their campaigns. They are moving up in the polls and in one NBC post-debate poll (it must have pained them so to put it out), Cruz and Carson are #2 and #3 respectively behind Donald Trump while establishment favorite Jeb Bush slips towards the middle of the pack. Even Carly Fiorina, another non-politiican, is rising fast.

Now the discussions here on Free Republic are getting quite heated between the pro-Trump folks and the anti-Trump people. The anti-Trumpers see Trump as a false idol who is not a true conservative. They see Trump as a disruptor who will end up dividing the conservative vote, resulting in a slam-dunk victory for the Democrats. On the other hand, the pro-Trumpers are just plain fed up with the political process. They have been burned in the past by career politicians and their false promises. After all, what has the GOP majority in both houses done for us lately? In there minds, our leaders have failed us and it's time to give an outsider like Donald Trump a chance, even though he's not a fully vetted conservative by any means.

I hate to see this division in the ranks although I do see and understand the passion on both sides of the fence.

What I want to say here is that regardless of how we feel today about one candidate or the other, we are still nearly six months (half a year!) away from the beginning of the primary voting. A lot can change between now and then. Trump may not even still be in the race by the time the Iowa caucus rolls around. So what I'm saying is let's not make enemies of each other at this time. I like to think that we here on Free Republic are all on the same team, even though we do have our differences. A Trump voter today could easily be a Cruz voter come January, as circumstances are likely to change between now and then.

Ridiculing or attacking each other for taking a pro or anti Trump position is not likely to win each other over. That's not to say we shouldn't have vigorous and passionate discussion (and be prepared to intellectually defend our own positions.) But we should not consider each other enemies - at least not when we are still six months away from the voting.

Now I'm as guilty as anybody else when it comes to this sort of thing. So I'm not claiming any high ground for myself. I will vow however to keep the discourse between my fellow Freepers more civil and respectful going forward.

Speaking for myself, while I am taking a pro-Trump position today, I am paying very close attention to Ted Cruz and I'm liking what I'm seeing. He was phenomenal in the "debate" last Thursday night and his campaign appearances in the Deep South this past weekend were electrifying. And to think that the media tried to destroy this guy.

I think win or lose this go-around, Ted Cruz has a great future ahead of him (he's only 44!) and has potential to be a historical figure along the lines of Ronald Reagan. A man of his caliber has nowhere to go but up.

So while I'm currently supporting Trump, if by the time my Connecticut primary comes around on April 26, Cruz is in the running for the nomination and that Jeb Bush has been knocked out, I will likely switch my vote to Ted Cruz. Even if Trump is still in the race at that time. So while I will vote for Trump over Bush, I will vote for Cruz over Trump, provided Cruz at that time has a shot at the nomination. I think a lot of the other Trump voters of today feel the same way.

Bottom line, many of us conservatives are fed up with politics as usual and especially with the way the GOPe has rigged the nomination process to eliminate true conservatives from the race and nominate middle-of-the-road milquetoast candidates who become easy pickings for the Democrat nominee.

Think about the dismal performance of the GOP nominees since Ronald Reagan. Sure, Bush Sr. won big in 1988 but he was still riding Reagan's coattails and it didn't hurt that the Democrats fielded one of the worst tickets ever (Dukakis/Bengtson). Since then, the GOP nominee lost big in 1992 and 1996. In 2000, GWB squeaked in only as a result of a handful of Ralph Nader votes in Florida. He then barely held off Kerry in 2004. Then it's been a train wreck ever since.

No wonder so many of us are enamored of Donald Trump. He is showing us how to fight back and how to win. Sure, he's a bull in a china shop and he's likely to eventually blunder his way out of contention, but for the moment, we are observing in awe, like that earlier described 747 flying sideways through the air.

And look at who's riding in Trump's wake. We have Ted Cruz, Ben Carson and even Carly Fiorina gaining on and even possibly surpassing the choice of the establishment, Jeb Bush.

Another Freeper in these forums described the situation perfectly. Look at Donald Trump as the delivery mechanism with Ted Cruz, Ben Carson and other conservatives being the payload. As for Bush, we'll just jettison him overboard like a blue ice cube from an airplane toilet.

So thanks for entertaining my vanity ramble and let's see where all this takes us.

You have to understand what (I believe) Cruz is saying. You actually shut the door on millions of illegals, and you return to a policy of only legal immigration and only letting in those who can contribute to our society.

I realize nurses and engineers fear this because places like India are producing a lot of engineers. Of course you don’t want to flood the job market with lower paid foreigners, but it only makes sense to say that once you stop illegals the country can return to a healthier legal immigration system.

I was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek when I spoke of Trump's "missteps and blunders." Should have put it in quotes like I just did here.

What I was trying to get across was that despite these so-called "missteps and blunders", Trump's support was continuing to get stronger, which is a punch in the stomach for the media that are trying to destroy him.

I still think that Trump will eventually do or say something that will cause him to lose support. But I might just be wrong. It's going to be very interesting.

I can certainly empathize. I was laid off in 2008 from a failing company. (Inadequate company strategy & resources, the overall economy, and the implosion of the industry I was in were all factors in the company’s demise.) I never was able to land a salaried job: Employers are sometimes as averse to hiring an overqualified person as underqualified, perhaps because they know the former will move on if at all possible. Luckily I’d saved / prepared and was able to restart an old business of my own that I’d mostly hibernated - but the 1st 2 years as I lost money at it were really rough.

That said, I am not anti-legal-immigrant, at levels that don’t seriously affect wage competition in the US. My wife is from a 3rd world country, and is a huge plus for the US of A (and me!!!) Some of the people at other companies I now work with are incredibly talented immigrants: Again, they are a big boon to both their employers and to the US.

What doesn’t make sense is importation of big numbers of people when so many citizens have been pushed completely out of the workforce.

A very good screed. I still think Donald trump is a blow-hard - but is a good example of how to fight back, and how to get the peoples’ attention to issues that the MSM is ignoring. Also, I’m with most Freepers regarding the disgust at the GOP in Washington DC.

Cruz is a great candidate. Carson would be very good in the Dept. of Health; Fiorina is good on the stump - but I am yet to see her as a serious candidate; I still like Walker and Jindal too.

"I especially want to point out the virtues of Ted Cruz and Ben Carson."

Quite a few of Trump's advocates have also mentioned Carson as one of their favorites.

Ben Carson on Gun Control
http://www.ontheissues.org/Ben_Carson.htm#Gun_Control
"Semi-automatic weapons ok in countryside, but not cities. (Mar 2013)"

Donald Trump on Gun Control
http://www.ontheissues.org/donald_trump.htm#Gun_Control
"For assault weapon ban, waiting period, & background check. (Jul 2000)"

Never have been a fan of the Trump TV circus and media sideshow, but curiously watched him in the recent debate aftermath which reminded me of why I would do a write-in for my neighbors cat before I would vote for Trump. His bragging about getting favors in exchange for political contributions to the Clinton’s was more than enough to turn my stomach. He’s a pretty good alternative to those normally voting democrat, but i am still surprised by the amount of support from conservatives.

While it’s still too early to call, I’ve narrowed the short list down to Cruz and Carson as my top choices with Santorum and Jindal as fallbacks. It would take alot more convincing by Walker, Rubio or Paul to be included on that list, but that’s about as far out as I would go with electable selections.

I recall Carly being pushed several years ago as a VP for McLame or Romney. While I didn’t remember the specifics, I did remember that there was something not matching with the rhetoric and wasn’t interested in finding out more. Saw something recenly about her being anti-Cruz which confirmed any reasoning for not including her.

Again writing in the neighbors cat if for some reason the country goes entirely stupid and lets another Bush, Goober Graham, Crispy Creme Christy, or the Huckster get anywhere close to the nomination.

Same goes for Perry, Pataki, Gilmore, and Kasich...just not interested in the compromises necessary for the moderates to be even remotely palatable at this point.

Nice job, SamAdams ~

Here’s to The 2’nd American Revolution ...

May we be Victorious,
Through the wise actions of Leaders & Patriots
And Prayerful,
for His continued Blessings ...

Through The Strong Son of God,

For The Greatest Nation on Earth ~

For if we are without Him .... We Are Nothing

Prayers Up

First of all, this is a good idea and a good thread.

I too hate to see the base split and fighting. I hate to see that almost as much as I hate to see Christians fighting amongst themselves. We probably have Christians fighting amongst themselves as it is on this.

But I did want to CAUTION (not start a fight) about Trump showing us how to fight back and how to win. I don’t know that he was the first to do it- in fact I’d say certainly not. In recent cycles we’ve seen Gingrich do it, Rand Paul and even Fiorina to a lesser extent of, if not throwing the pressure back on the media, throwing it back on the Democrats.

Has Trump won? Or is he winning? I guess if you look at the polls you could say yes. But again, I’d CAUTION that this happens to us I think too often. We gain a little momentum, achieve some victories, and we let our guard down only to find out that’s exactly what our enemy was waiting for.

Now Trump, if he’s legit, he’s not going to let his guard down. But we as conservatives have done that as a whole all too often on all too many issues. Or at least, the Republicans have. But that’s a whole other ball of wax.

There may be another way to win than Trump’s enraged bull in a china shop routine. But in the meantime I guess it does have its effectiveness and entertainment value.

Anti-Trump FReeper = conservative not wiling to support a liberal for the Republican nomination.

Here's my thought on that, for what it's worth:

I look at the presidential candidates that the GOP has handed us for the last 25 years and I see nothing but mealy-mouthed, left-leaning elitists. George W Bush. John McCain. Mitt Romney. These guys aren't even close to representing the average joe USA, let alone conservative average joe USA. And now look what the GOP is trying to foist upon us: Jeb Bush (#%$&*@#!!) If there were even one person among the GOP establishment with a single foot on the ground and half a brain, Jeb wouldn't be allowed anywhere near the GOP playing field, if only because of the Bush name, let alone because he's a pro-amnesty, 2nd-generation New World Order, Clinton-kissing, Schiavo-killing milquetoast. Yet here he is - the obvious GOP chosen frontrunner. Most of the other yahoos bursting out of the GOP clown car aren't much better.

So, the expectation for any conservative voter should be that we're not going to get a conservative from the GOP establishment. We'd love to go third-party but we know it will be a painful number of years until any third party gains traction, and by then the once-great USA will be a smoldering crater fruitlessly manned by aggrieved mestizos. Having a candidate within the GOP like Trump is the closest thing we'll have to a viable third-party candidate. Sure, he is not a conservative in any real sense, BUT NEITHER ARE ANY OF THE OTHER GOP NOMINEES. At least Trump would take over the White House like he would the CEO chairmanship of a corporation he just bought out and drive that company toward success without spending even a fraction of a second wringing his hands over which gender-confused sniveler is offended by his choice of breakfast cereal today.

That is why conservatives, real conservatives who haven't filtered out every last drop of piss and vinegar from their veins through the mainstream media dialysis machine, can not only stand to support Trump, but even hoist a stiff drink in his honor. It's about time somebody kicked the left-wing thought-control machine in the family jewels, and as long as Trump's the man doing it, he'll get plenty of cheers from the cheap seats.

Thanks for your well thought out post.

I see it differently. Trump is a liberal. I trust no liberal. You apparently do because you like what he has been saying.

Ted Cruz may have his faults but it's not accurate to say he is not a conservative because he is.

I'm supporting the only conservative in the race, Ted Cruz.

Thanks again.

If Ted Cruz wins, I will be as happy as can be. I think it is telling that Cruz refuses to badmouth Trump. That’s smart. Very smart. I wish the other idiots had that sort of wisdom and intelligence. It may very well be that Trump’s candidacy exposes the limp-wrists of the GOP early on, disqualifying them, and leaves Cruz as the last man standing. If so, then I would thank God twice as much for the Trump phenomenon as I do now. However, like Charlie Brown with the football, I think I have finally learned my lesson about putting too much hope into a man, especially one who has so many establishment ties (as Cruz does - I believe his wife works for Goldman-Sachs). So, while I have respect for Cruz, I watch him with a wary eye.

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