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Does Immigration Harm Working Americans?
The Atlantic ^ | 05 Jan 2015 | David Frum

Posted on 01/07/2015 8:38:44 AM PST by Theoria

Many economists say no—but they may be too glib.

The job news is increasingly good: 321,000 jobs created in November. Yet the national economic mood remains grimly bleak.

Many Americans feel a sharp distinction between what’s said about “the” economy and what they experience in “their” economy. At the top of the income distribution, wages are rising. In the middle and bottom, wages stagnate. Jobs are created, yes—but native-born Americans are not hired for them.

Last month, the Center for Immigration Studies released its latest jobs study. CIS, a research organization that tends to favor tight immigration policies, found that even now, almost seven years after the collapse of Lehman Brothers, 1.5 million fewer native-born Americans are working than in November 2007, the peak of the prior economic cycle. Balancing the 1.5 million fewer native-born Americans at work, there are 2 million more immigrants—legal and illegal—working in the United States today than in November 2007. All the net new jobs created since November 2007 have gone to immigrants. Meanwhile, millions of native-born Americans, especially men, have abandoned the job market altogether. The percentage of men aged 25 to 54 who are working or looking for work has dropped to the lowest point in recorded history.


Labor Force Participation Rate Among Men Aged 25 to 54, 2004-2014

                                                                                     Bureau of Labor Statistics    

(Excerpt) Read more at theatlantic.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: aliens; corporatewelfare; economy; h1b; illegal; illegalalien; immigration; jobs; nafta
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To: ansel12
Immigration didn’t really start in America until about 1850, and then they started flooding in and changing us.

The Lakota Sioux say it started sooner...

41 posted on 01/08/2015 10:27:51 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Enterprise

“If someone is working, then immigrants aren’t hurting that person’s employment.” Hogwash


42 posted on 01/08/2015 10:29:06 AM PST by MHGinTN
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To: 3Fingas
Statesmen, doctors, scientists, engineers, computer programmers, and skilled tradesmen.

Funny, I hear that a LOT of these jobs HAD Americans in them, but someone who would work CHEAPER came along.

43 posted on 01/08/2015 10:29:38 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Why waste time with that kind of cutesyness.

Do you want to tell us what the immigration law was of the stone age tribe that you mentioned, or what immigration laws they themselves followed of other stone age groups?


44 posted on 01/08/2015 10:30:23 AM PST by ansel12 (Civilization, Crusade against the Mohammedan Death Cult.)
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To: MHGinTN

Agreed!


45 posted on 01/08/2015 10:58:19 AM PST by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
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To: ansel12

I am not supporting the left’s immigration laws. I have already explained that I am for controlled legal immigration. They want unrestricted immigration, both legal and illegal. You are either intentionally distorting my position or you can’t read properly. You appear to be against all immigration. Well, you are entitled to your opinion.

Far from being a cheerleader for the destruction of US, I spent 20 years of my life in uniform defending it. Maybe, you have done as much, but I doubt it.

I will give you the point about Hamilton being under British rule, but he did, in fact, come from somewhere else.


46 posted on 01/08/2015 11:29:51 AM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededication to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: 3Fingas

They support the current laws and wrote them, that is what destroyed America, and you support their legal immigration unless you want to end it, and why do you want to keep moving the world to America anyway?

Isn’t 60 years, a 100 million foreigners and their offspring, and the destruction of our once great nation, enough for you people?

And Hamilton did not come from somewhere else, he was here the day our nation was created, and he helped create it, he was an original American, not an immigrant to it.


47 posted on 01/08/2015 11:54:25 AM PST by ansel12 (Civilization, Crusade against the Mohammedan Death Cult.)
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To: ansel12

I already conceded your point about Hamilton....

You think that immigration is the primary reason for the decline in America? No, the primary reason for our decline is the decadence and immorality that normally follows periods of prolonged prosperity in great civilizations and the abandonment of traditional American beliefs by native born Americans. Does unrestricted (mostly illegal) immigration contribute to our problems? Most definitely.

I am not defending the immigration policies since 1965. I believe these were put into place to create voting blocks for the democrats. I am for controlled legal immigration that is selective and encourages the brightest and most talented people in the world to bring their talents here.

Should we have a pause in immigration to absorb the many who have come here? Probably. That is why I say I support “controlled” legal immigration.

I am a native born American. Obviously, I think that we as Americans should take care of our own first and foremost. However, that does not mean we can’t have controlled, selective, and limited immigration to add to our country. Controlled immigration means we invite who can come in, when they can come in, or not come in at all depending on our economic and social needs.


48 posted on 01/08/2015 12:31:14 PM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededication to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: 3Fingas

Legal immigration destroyed America.

The original Americans are voting like they always have, immigration is what gives the left it’s power and it’s voters, and it’s presidents.

Immigration is what makes it impossible to preserve anything resembling America before 1970, do you think that California became what it is without the immigration vote and it’s undermining of existing traditions, culture, institutions and common goals and identity, and commonality and American identity?

California was a great place before immigration, and immigration is what the left counts on to take Texas.

Even the South will be crumbling as they are erased like the rest of America and it’s past.


49 posted on 01/08/2015 12:47:01 PM PST by ansel12 (Civilization, Crusade against the Mohammedan Death Cult.)
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To: ansel12
Do you want to tell us what the immigration law was of the stone age tribe that you mentioned, or what immigration laws they themselves followed of other stone age groups?

Law?

What 'law'?

It's ALL about control!

If you don't have it, or keep it; you lose.

How you go about it is a bit inconsequential.

50 posted on 01/08/2015 12:51:46 PM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ansel12
Isn’t 60 years, a 100 million foreigners and their offspring, and the destruction of our once great nation, enough for you people?

I think it's been predicted:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Death-West-Populations-Civilization/dp/0312302592

51 posted on 01/08/2015 12:53:19 PM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ansel12
Legal immigration destroyed America.

Don't you mean ILlegal?

52 posted on 01/08/2015 12:55:08 PM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ansel12

I understand some of where you are coming from. However, I can assure that over the years, while in the Marines, some of the best Americans I have ever served along side were recent arrivals to this country. So, you can’t paint all immigrants with that brush.


53 posted on 01/08/2015 12:56:52 PM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededication to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: 3Fingas

Well isn’t that sweet, you have met nice immigrants, so have I, who hasn’t, you think foreigners can’t be nice and have to be meany pants to destroy us as a nation?

Are you a female?


54 posted on 01/08/2015 1:00:33 PM PST by ansel12 (Civilization, Crusade against the Mohammedan Death Cult.)
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To: Elsie

More time wasting nonsense.


55 posted on 01/08/2015 1:01:12 PM PST by ansel12 (Civilization, Crusade against the Mohammedan Death Cult.)
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To: ansel12

Ha! Now, you are just acting like an ass.

Many of these “nice” immigrants have taken bullets, lost limbs, or died for you and your freedom to act like an ass. So carry on acting like an ass and have fun pretending to be a keyboard warrior for America. There are people out there actually doing something to support and defend the Constitution. Maybe you can recognize that someday. Hope springs eternal.


56 posted on 01/08/2015 1:48:02 PM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededication to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: 3Fingas

No, you sound like a female, are you?

You want to defend the left’s immigration by describing how you met nice immigrants, just like me and the rest of us have, well your sweet feelings are not a justification for destroying our country.


57 posted on 01/08/2015 2:47:13 PM PST by ansel12 (Civilization, Crusade against the Mohammedan Death Cult.)
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To: ansel12

You know damn well that I am not a female. You are just asking that to be an ass. I could use the same juvenile tactic with you and ask you if you were beaten up a lot in high school because you sure act like you were.

I bet a real tough Internet patriot like you never did anything to further the interests of this country. I bet you just sit on your ass and complain about whole groups of people instead doing anything of real value. Some of these people you condemn are doing the work you should be doing.

One problem with you is that you think you are a better American than someone else because you don’t like where they originally came from. Another problem with you is that you are functionally illiterate.

For the benefit of anyone else reading, I am for controlled legal immigration. This means we control who comes in, when they come in, or if they come in at all. That in no way resembles the Left’s policy position which could only be described as unrestricted immigration. You know the difference between the two positions but you choose to not recognize them.

Well, I can’t fix your stupid, nor am I even going to try. I also have better things to do then to have a useless exchange with you.


58 posted on 01/09/2015 3:52:25 AM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededication to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: ansel12
More time wasting nonsense.

So; I can assume by your non answer; that even LEGAL immigrants galls you?

59 posted on 01/09/2015 4:37:03 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Because he speaks broken English.


60 posted on 01/09/2015 7:43:50 AM PST by BlackAdderess ("Give me a but a firm spot on which to stand, and I shall move the earth". --Archimedes)
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