Posted on 04/19/2014 3:27:33 PM PDT by CorporateStepsister
TRES RIOS, Costa Rica (AP) — On a warm spring day, Floribeth Mora was in her bed waiting to die from a seemingly inoperable brain aneurysm when her gaze fell upon a photograph of Pope John Paul II in a newspaper.
"Stand up," Mora recalls the image of the pope saying to her. "Don't be afraid."
Mora, her doctors and the Catholic Church say her aneurysm disappeared that day in a miracle that cleared the way for the late pope to be declared a saint on April 27 in a ceremony at the Vatican where Mora will be a guest of honor.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.msn.com ...
You want to show us in scripture where God used a dead apostle to perform miracles???
“If you are not a Catholic and simply wish to tell us how wrong our beliefs are, please move along to another thread.”
This needs some help...
If you are not a Catholic and wish to participate in this open thread, of course you are welcome here! Please post your views and we’ll discuss them.
“He is part of the cloud of witnesses (12:1-2).”
The “cloud of witnesses” is listed in Hebrews 11.
“Additional details are in these links — please educate yourself.”
An unBiblical process.
You don't know that...
Wonderful. Glory to God.
“No where in Scripture is there a command, example or instructions for this function. It is made up out of whole cloth.”
No. Jesus gave authority to the Church.
“Great! List some miracles they certified as miracles.”
All those you read of in the NT - or else they wouldn’t be listed there since it was the Apostles and their disciples who wrote the human authors of scripture.
“Tongues are a spiritual gift and not a miracle.”
They are miracles as well as spiritual gifts, and the spiritual gifts - as supernatural gifts - have a miraculous quality to them anyway.
“The instructions in scripture concern proper use of spiritual gifts.”
That doesn’t stop them from being miraculous in nature.
“The unverifiable part is that there is no way to prove or disprove this person had any connection. It is an opinion.”
Padre Pio? No. It is CERTAIN as to what happened. Gemma is still alive and has no pupils. Thus, she must - by all the laws of nature - be blind. After Pio prayed for her she was able to see, however. Hence, a miracle. There is no other possible explanation.
“Still an opinion of how it happened.”
Nope. We know exactly what happened because there were witnesses. We know Gemma had no pupils. We know Gemma still has no pupils. We know no one can see - at all - without pupils. We know she was brought to Pio. We know he prayed for her and told her she would be better. She began to see - which is impossible. Yet it happened exactly that way as all those involved agree.
“Nor, of course is a miracle required for anyone to become a saint - other than the amazing miracle of exchanging His righteousness for our sinfulness.”
Anyone can get to heaven without performing a miracle on this earth because Christ works the miracles in any sense anyway. A saint in Heaven, however, can be known to be there through their intercession in a miraculous event on this earth.
“The “cloud of witnesses” is listed in Hebrews 11.”
Only those from the Old Testament. The cloud of witnesses did not end with the end of the Old Testament age.
As the CCC notes:
A cloud of witnesses
2683 The witnesses who have preceded us into the kingdom,41 especially those whom the Church recognizes as saints, share in the living tradition of prayer by the example of their lives, the transmission of their writings, and their prayer today. They contemplate God, praise him and constantly care for those whom they have left on earth. When they entered into the joy of their Master, they were “put in charge of many things.”42 Their intercession is their most exalted service to God’s plan. We can and should ask them to intercede for us and for the whole world.
2684 In the communion of saints, many and varied spiritualities have been developed throughout the history of the churches. The personal charism of some witnesses to God’s love for men has been handed on, like “the spirit” of Elijah to Elisha and John the Baptist, so that their followers may have a share in this spirit.43 A distinct spirituality can also arise at the point of convergence of liturgical and theological currents, bearing witness to the integration of the faith into a particular human environment and its history. The different schools of Christian spirituality share in the living tradition of prayer and are essential guides for the faithful. In their rich diversity they are refractions of the one pure light of the Holy Spirit.
The Spirit is truly the dwelling of the saints and the saints are for the Spirit a place where he dwells as in his own home since they offer themselves as a dwelling place for God and are called his temple.44
http://biblehub.com/hebrews/12-1.htm
Hebrews 12:1
New International Version
Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,
“You want to show us in scripture where God used a dead apostle to perform miracles???”
They’re all alive in Christ.
“You don’t know that...”
Yes, actually I do. Are you claiming Peter is in Hell?
“A saint in Heaven, however, can be known to be there through their intercession in a miraculous event on this earth.”
This is the rub, vlad. There is no way to *know* they heard, interceded or even know what happened. A human committee attributes the miracle without *knowing*.
The writer of Hebrews listed many witnesses to God’s faithfulness in chapter 11. In chapter 12, he describes the readers as “being surrounded” in order to spur them on to faith. They are not actively witnessing to us. Their lives and trust in God, despite not seeing the fulfillment of His promise, is a witness to all believers.
Any more than that is made up.
HaHa...Your pope ain't Peter...And no, you have no knowledge of whether that pope or any one of your Saints is in heaven...
They’re all alive in Christ.
And of course you can't show that a dead apostle or even one 'alive in Christ' in heaven ever performed a miracle, because it never happened and never will...
There’s no more authority in that commentary than there is in the WatchTower magazine...
“This is the rub, vlad. There is no way to *know* they heard, interceded or even know what happened. A human committee attributes the miracle without *knowing*.”
False. The miracle is only attributed to the intercession of the saint called upon to intercede. That’s all based on what is known.
So then where is she??? Why is she not on EWTN??? Can you imagine the number of people she could draw to the Catholic religion if there was any truth to the story??? I'd say if it was true, this woman would have her face plastered all over the tv and internet...
“They are not actively witnessing to us.”
Being surrounded by witnesses means the witnesses are by necessity active.
“Their lives and trust in God, despite not seeing the fulfillment of His promise, is a witness to all believers.”
“Any more than that is made up.”
No.
Are you claiming Peter is in Hell?
Are you claiming Peter is in Hell?
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