they gladly lick the boots of their masters while WE would bite the hand that tries to feed us... we can fend for ourselves, better to die on your feet than to live on your knees
Posted on 01/02/2014 6:41:50 PM PST by markomalley
Here's a question that I've asked in the past that needs to be revisited. Unless one wishes to obfuscate, it has a simple yes or no answer. If one group of people prefers strong government control and management of people's lives while another group prefers liberty and desires to be left alone, should they be required to enter into conflict with one another and risk bloodshed and loss of life in order to impose their preferences on the other group? Yes or no. My answer is no; they should be able to peaceably part company and go their separate ways.
The problem our nation faces is very much like a marriage in which one partner has an established pattern of ignoring and breaking the marital vows. Moreover, the offending partner has no intention to mend his ways. Of course, the marriage can remain intact while one party tries to impose his will on the other and engages in the deviousness of one-upsmanship and retaliation. Rather than domination or submission by one party, or domestic violence, a more peaceable alternative is separation.
I believe our nation is at a point where there are enough irreconcilable differences between those Americans who want to control other Americans and those Americans who want to be left alone that separation is the only peaceable alternative. Just as in a marriage where vows are broken, our rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution have been grossly violated by a government instituted to protect them. These constitutional violations have increased independent of whether there's been a Democrat-controlled Washington or a Republican-controlled Washington.
There is no evidence that Americans who are responsible for and support constitutional abrogation have any intention of mending their ways. You say, "Williams, what do you mean by constitutional abrogation?" Let's look at the magnitude of the violations.
Article I, Section 8 of our Constitution lists the activities for which Congress is authorized to tax and spend. Nowhere on that list is there authority for Congress to tax and spend for: Medicare, Social Security, public education, farm subsidies, bank and business bailouts, food stamps and thousands of other activities that account for roughly two-thirds of the federal budget. Neither is there authority for congressional mandates to citizens about what type of health insurance they must purchase, how states and people may use their land, the speed at which they can drive, whether a library has wheelchair ramps, and the gallons of water used per toilet flush. The list of congressional violations of both the letter and spirit of the Constitution is virtually without end. Our derelict Supreme Court has given Congress sanction to do just about anything for which they can muster a majority vote.
James Madison, the acknowledged father of the Constitution, explained in Federalist Paper No. 45: "The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce. ... The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives and liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement and prosperity of the State." Our founder's constitutional vision of limited federal government has been consigned to the dustbin of history.
Americans have several options. We can like sheep submit to those who have contempt for liberty and our Constitution. We can resist, fight and risk bloodshed and death in an attempt to force America's tyrants to respect our liberties and Constitution. A superior alternative is to find a way to peaceably separate into states whose citizens respect liberty and the Constitution. My personal preference is a restoration of the constitutional values of limited government that made us a great nation.
Oh, they certainly would lose, if they ever embarked upon that fight. Personally, I don't think they have what it takes to even start it. They've simply got the 'wrong stuff' for it.
I agree, but as someone pointed out, they’ll try whatever they think will work.
I know, and it's why I love you, brother. We can argue about stuff all day long without getting a hate on.
I wouldn't rule out the scenario you described in your last post, but in looking at what a descent into open hostilities would bring out on both sides, it's all too apparent to me that we'd instantly see a re-emergence of a part of the American character that hasn't been unleashed since WW II.
We simply haven't had our mettle tested in such a way for so long, that many have come to believe that it no longer exists. Well, it does exist, just as it does for any sovereign people. It takes a threat of real extermination to bring it out, but out it will come, if that threat presents itself.
When I examine this issue, I always come back to the basics, the most important of which, is, you have a very large population of decent citizens who are law abiding, productive, sincere, religious (for the most part), self reliant, industrious, perceptive, and honorable.
These people are also strongly imbued with a sense of rightness about their and their country's place in history. They have a strong sense (backed up by real world observations) of the correctness of their mutually held considerations about their way of life and the foundational aspects of their nation.
These tens of millions are the bedrock upon which the rest of the nation stands, and are the force which propels the economic engine of prosperity and success in this country.
They're also armed to the teeth.
Push such a population of people over the edge, and you've got a world class problem on your hands. Once driven to anger, they won't rest until everything in the culture has been put back to rights, as they see it.
We simply have truth and right on our side. Those things are more powerful than any force on earth. Any effort to forcibly undo them is doomed to failure.
By any means necessary.
I pretty much agree with your post. I just dont have the faith in my fellow man that you do.
Now I totally agree about most being good people and of character reemerging. That said, I look out across the fruited plane and see a lot of fruits. They have never been this close to the brass ring. They are seeing the result of God bashing,communist teaching and the rest of the 1963 Communist goals come to fruition in a MASSIVE number of people who lack any sense of morality, character or love of country. They are literal human garbage of all shapes sizes and colors that worship “ME”. not me as in Normie (Though as my writings clearly show I am worthy of such praise ;) but the ME that is an individual just like all their friends. The ME that pots them as Island of one Gods in their own pantheon under the watchful and loving gaze of Gaia the Magnificent (And Barry is her Prophet...Allah Snackbar). They are smarter than you, better people than you, fighting for greater good than you and thus superior to you. Just ask them Windy. You suck. So do I.
But we all know that. What I think is missing from the equation is the acceptance of just how evil they are. Like the Nazis, they are so convinced of their possition, they will likk you to win the arguement. No, the pajamaboy at the espresso machine won’t do it personally. But he will attend the Wisconson’ish anti union rally in your town, occupy your buildings and provide the ‘moral’ courage, food, shelter and escape vehicle to the ALF nutcase who will, then show up at the espresso machine tomorrow with a smug look of happiness that Dave Foreman Junior planted a bomb at the local VFW. And his meekness will leave him out of suspicion time after time because ‘well he’s not the violent type’.
True. But he haZ a FriendZ who are. And he knows their phone number. Having had ALF whackjobs chase me around the desert and pass around (incorrect) home info for me during my Off-Road.com years showed me just how dangerous the meek ones ‘can’ be. They are a HUGE part of every totaliarian wet dream. The shock troops behind the shock troops. And very dangerous.
In the end, I am convinced that the scenario will play out as it has so many times before. I just pray to God that there are more of the people in your post than mine so that we can minimize the hell that’s unleashed, faster.
There are more of us, than there are of them, Normie. Every poll that has ever been run on the question bears that out. Logic also dictates that if there were more of them than there are of us, the nation would have imploded economically long ago. It hasn't, which indicates that most people are still on the wagon pulling side of the equation.
But let's go back to the questions posed by Walter Williams in the article above. How are the good and decent people of this country going to respond to the confluence of events that are irrevocably overtaking this country? As he brilliantly deduced, there are only four logical responses to the absolute tyranny that's on its way.
Without restating them, I can see only two that are likely (though the possibility exists for them all). The first is political dis-unification, or, secession by several red states. The second is a full scale rebellion by the people.
Of the two, secession is the more likely, because it promises a peaceful political solution to the tension of our divisions. It would be up to the blue states to simply accept it, or respond to it with force. Like King George III before them, I think the blue states would be shocked and amazed by the resolve of the red states to be free of their grip, and would soon discover that the resolve of the red states also translates into deadly reaction on their part.
Personally, I don't believe that they'll find the political or even cultural will to go that far to stop us. There'd no doubt be a great deal of social turmoil and dislocation caused by secession, but I believe that a mobilized citizenry and their appointed state militias would keep a handle on the worst of it.
What I don't think we'd see, is a military response from Washington. Frankly, the political pressure for a non-violent response is much more evident in today's cultural climate. Nations around the world would condemn the U.S. in the worst ways imaginable, if they chose to launch a military campaign against a peaceful political separation of states.
Sure there are mor of us gross. but what about the net? How many of that number would do squat other than cower in their corner afraid to offend someone and lose their flatscreen?
Seriously. People that cant stand up for something like their own principles on an internet forum because they are aftaid they might look extreme aren’t gonna go get the 12 gauge any time soon. We can look to Germany, my half ancestors for what happens in a real world scenario when liberals march. They find some excuse to join the party.
If I have to put a number on it, I would look at our own little microcosom right here. Right off the bat, everyone was going to neverevernever vote for that radical liberal babykiller Mitt Romney. As the primary approached, some people would vote for that liberal mitt Romney. After the primary, half of FR was onboard with the Lesser Evil Mit Romney. As the election approached, 3/4 of the people were either remaining silent or attacking everyone in sight that refused to get on board the the only thing that could save us from liberal baby killer Barry Soetero.
My how things come full circle.
As I asked earlier as a generalization...Are you personally willing to bet your life and the lives of your family that people that cannot even cast a nameless and faceless vote for what they claim to believe in, will have your back when the SHTF?
Considering the only people Barry attacks are people against his interests and considering that the UN goes to bat for or at least only writes stern letters against him, I don’t think they have an issue helping to eliminate a bunch of hated cristians and others who won’t play ball. I mean they do it all the time in other parts of the world.
Sure we got guns. They have plenty of cannon foder to give us targets. And they will with promises of new homelands and other such crap. Just like they did in Africa in more than one country there.
I think we have to split the country for the reasons stated in the article and more. To me it is rediculously obvious that one way or another, its coming. But it will be a fight and we have more problems with Vichy idiots than we will with the left. If we survive them, and their insistance on compromise, lesser evil and often flat out cowardice, the rest will go quick.
Yikes .. that's quite a stroke, bloke .. congrats ! d:^)
It's worth clarifying -- I'm not the bloke. I'm the bird.
The difference, the left wants us to lose in Afghanistan and Iraq. They couldn't lose against us. Think of their history how ruthless the left actually are. National Socialism, communism and so on.
Don't ever underestimate their cruelty
Well congrats regardless .. lol .. but at 185, unless he was 5' nuthin, at least he wasn't much of a grocery expense !
That’s the core of it. Modern people on the right want to believe that the past is past and that it cant happen again much less here.
Now Windy knows they are evil but I dont think most of the actual real conservatives you talk to outside fourms like this do. They say it occasionally, but yet even here on FR I dont think people really grasp it and fall back to the belief that everyone has some good in them.
No. Everyone does not. Like the movie line, in Batman, some people just want to watch the world burn. In this case, some people just want to see America burn and their hated enemies, right wingers, stricken from the face of the earth. Until people remember history, they will forever repeat it.
Abusive boyfriends don't let their girl friends just peacefully walk out on them. They usually end up and threaten, bully or beat them up to stop them. As a last resort, some will kill them rather than let them out of the relationship. A restraining order from a judge is very often useless. Sometimes it takes a .38 special in the girl friend's hand to stop it.
That is the sort of relationship in which we (the abusive girl friends) find ourselves today. The only question is, what sort of counter coercion is it likely to take to leave without serious or fatal damage?
True liberalism won in the US revolutionary war which was a great victory. It failed for a number of reasons.
But There is only one case that I am aware of the reverse and works to this day. Singapore.
In the (first) American revolution, only 3% of the colonists ever shouldered a rifle and fired upon the British, and about a third of the colonists unwaveringly supported the cause of independence.
Should this country ever come to a similar place, I would expect those percentages to be even higher because we're a long established country now. People wouldn't be fighting for the idea of a homeland all their own -- they'd be fighting to preserve and protect the real thing.
If I had to give it a conservative guess, I would figure that no fewer than 10% would stand in direct defiance to tyranny, while perhaps 50% or more would openly support them. I also believe that those numbers are well known to the powers-that-be, which is another reason they haven't attempted anything more aggressive with us so far.
30 million riflemen is more than any country's military can contend with. Not even the combined military forces of the planet could stand against such a force.
Yeah, they're mighty 'brave' against unarmed people. It's a little different when they're faced with an armed population.
they gladly lick the boots of their masters while WE would bite the hand that tries to feed us... we can fend for ourselves, better to die on your feet than to live on your knees
Not counting the beer and wine...
The 3% of yesteryear were people without the excuses that I hear all the time. “My house, my car, My kids college my PS4”. Now to be sure, the RevWar people put their material goods on the line and many lost them. Would they today? I go back to my question earlier. How many actual people right here on FR would you honestly trust to have your and your famlies back?
Whatever that number, it would be far higher than the general population. And nowhere near 50%. You might START with the 50% number until the first examples were made of the 10% willing to stand firm. After word spread of the first SWAT raids or the first big flash mob assaults, you would QUICKLY hear “Hey I got a wife and kids man...”
And then you’re at about MAYBE with luck, 20% perephrial support. And thats after the first round of brownshirts.
All you have to do is look at Germany. They were pounded down after WW1 by the terms of the treaty/sanctions and we have been pounded down by Obama and the nonstop media blitz against everything America stands for. And the people of that era were far stronger willed. Look at today’s ‘average’ American. Or try to without puking. Pussified, more concerned with killing their own babies, banning Christmas plays in grade school...OR ALLOWING IT TO GO ON, than lifting a finger to stop it.
I just do not see how anyone counts on them for support. Most will go Vichy to keep their material goods and live under the new order than do squat.
Yes, there are good people left. Solid, rugged and determined. But on the whole, person for person the American of today is the faintest fraction of his ancestor.
Most will not fight. Most will however reap the benefits of those who will. Put another way, This is Vietnam on a grand scale.
To the liberal, limp-wristed, wimp, PC crowd, I would say:
“....you all may go to hell, and I will go to Texas...”
“...Come and Take IT...”
Most will not fight. Most will however reap the benefits of those who will.
Brother, I'm really sorry to see that you have such a bleak outlook on our people. I really am. I don't know what else I can say to convince you that it's not as bad as you perceive.
I guess it boils down to a glass half full / empty view of where we are as a people.
For the record, I don't base my assertions about where our people are at on faith. It's what I see in front of me every day. The spirit of rebellion is alive in this country and growing all the time. There's a real hunger to preserve and protect what's best about our nation and its culture among us. I simply note and acknowledge that it's there, and it gives me hope.
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