Posted on 01/18/2013 8:25:21 PM PST by Vendome
Just a thought game for us.
There’s no such thing as a collective right.
The right is not constitutionally mandated. Recognized by the Constitution, yes. That it is not to be infringed upon is mandated. The right itself comes from elsewhere.
Nope, the founders wouldn’t do a 180 from wording the 1st Amendment as an individual right to wording the 2nd Amendment as a “collective right” (whatever that is). The scumbag lefties will say anything to try to confuse the ignorant chattering class.
What are you doing listening to those simple mice, anyway?
Havana? Venezuela? San Fransicko?
“A collective right or an individual right?” You ask this question seriously today?
Seems to me like some people responding to this post would do well to read the SCOTUS opinions from the Heller and the McDonald cases. While you’re at it, the recent opinion from the 7th Circuit, Moore v Madigan, warrants a bit of your reading time, too.
Once you do that, any doubts you have that the 2A being an INDIVIDUAL right will be put to rest.
The Second does two things ~ it recognizes that the entire class of people are noblemen. Secondly, it prohibits the federal government from abridging their rights ~ as noblemen.
Remember, power flows up from the bottom in America. Everyone is a nobleman. They all live in states. The state's exercise the sovereign powers of states as they are identified in the Peace of Westphalia (and as ratified in the Treaty of Paris 1783). The states act through an agent called the Federal government to effectuate foreign affairs, and interstate commerce.
Which means that ALL rights are collective rights and individual rights ~ but the Federal government has only limited powers or rights and they are enumerated!
They would have never built crew served weapons if they didn’t understand collective use of individual liberties.
BOTH
It applies to EVERY INDIVIDUAL...
and COLLECTIVELY to ALL INDIVIDUALS.
Sure, I ask this question today.
I was aghast at the idiocy on whatever left wing radio I was listening to.
I was driving along with my month open, in stunned admiration for their little minds attempting to think this through.
Sort of like mental sysiphus and they just don’t get anywhere.
And again Freepers validate why Jim Robville is the best place to get an education or prove the truth.
Was switching in between commercials from Levin to Tom Sullivan andwwent one click to far.
The talk show host dude kept welcoming callers with “God Bless”. Really, it was annoying and solicitous. After a while it was obnoxious but, the callers, sincere they were, cracked me up. You know, in the way you wait I’m anticipation for the next contrivance and with your eyebrows raised.
On reflection, it was a harmless, off road drive and more than amusing.
As an aside:
Two lib friends, who are anti-gun gave me an interesting win.
We briefly discussed 2A and they both said they still hate guns and wish the world didn’t have any but, they understand my right to have a gun and they were all right with it.
This after Barry’s woefully, pathetic, dog and pony show.
If Bare were serious and proposed anything significant he would have entertained a question or two after signing a vacuous document.
No....no, instead he demonstrated starkly and gave lie to the truth
Zactly and I’ve proffered that as a starting point or to conflate theargument
There is in Cuba or in a suedo Bolshevik state .
Both.
I should’ve cut off their tails but blind mice are pitiful and I couldn’t do it...
Remember the beginning of the MST3k movie: where the credits pop up with “UNIVERSAL INTERNATIONAL PRESENTS”
And - I think Crow - says “Uh. If it’s “Universal” isn’t it already “International”?”
Same deal: “The People” is everyone. If it’s “everyone” it’s already “each individual”.
Individual right.
and the purpose of this thread is to add to the historical record when the causes for the dissolution of the union are analyzed?
The Constitution is a contract among the People and the government founded thereby. As I look at it, the federal government is in breach of that contract, therefore, by its very terms and as a matter of natural right (See Declaration of Independence) we are no longer bound by it or subject to laws that do not comply therewith. If they push much more, if they infringe much further into my world and upon my rights to life and liberty, I will consider it a duty to my nature and my loved ones to instigate actions to terminate the contract by whatever means necessary.
Treasonous! many will say. To whom I reply: Except under an illegitimate law like the Alien and Sedition Act or any other such tyrannical rule, my expression of a my moral right to freedom from oppression is noble, not treasonous. If I’m the last American who believes this, I yearn for death. If not, I hope that like minded men and women will stand with me and refuse to comply with their unjust and thus immoral intrusions into our daily lives.
A few years ago, the town of Avon, CT [a Newtown-like suburb of Hartford] was in a flap over a Walmart or Dick’s that had recently opened. Mothers were *upset* that ammo and guns were in full view of their children who potentially could *see* them when they walked in the toy department nearby. Well, a public hearing was convened, and a bunch of us decided to attend. The Avon Stepford wifes drummed up support of their pols to demand of the store to put the ammo/guns behind a curtain, or in a separate room, so their precious snow-flakes would not *see* them. I was surprised that it was an open meeting for anyone, not just the town folk.
Well, it turns out I sat next to an articulate, well-dressed lady, and we struck up a conversation while waiting for the event to begin. She explained that she had no personal interest in firearms; when she rose to speak, she gave the most eloquent statement about how the town fathers had no business in circumventing the Constitution and our inalienable rights as citizens. [She could have easily been the re-incarnation of Madison or Patrick Henry]. It was awe-inspiring and if IIRC, she got a standing-O from the assembly.
This whole 2A debate might be a red-herring, to cover for legit discussion of so many hot-button issues that face us, as a nation. To me, any thinking person would have to conclude that a line has been drawn in the sand. It sure is for me.
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