Posted on 01/14/2013 2:03:02 PM PST by blam
A US Default Would Be The Financial Equivalent Of This Painting Of Hell
Brett LoGiurato
January 14, 2013
Earlier today, President Barack Obama almost dared Republicans to not increase the nation's borrowing limit in a White House press conference.
"If Congressional Republicans refuse to pay America’s bills on time, Social Security checks, veterans benefits will be delayed," Obama said. "... Investors around the world will ask if the United States of America is in fact a safe bet. Markets could go haywire. Interest rates would spike for anyone who borrowed money."
One analyst — Michael Feroli, the chief economist at JP Morgan — speculated what such a situation might look like, specifically if the U.S. missed a payment to bondholders.
It “would be like the financial market equivalent of that Hieronymus Bosch painting of hell,” Feroli told the Washington Post.
The painting is titled "The Garden of Earthly Delights" and is believed to have been painted by Bosch sometime between 1490 and 1510.
Here's what that painting looks like. The far right panel is the "hellscape."
(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...
Hell doesn’t fit on my TV.
Years, ago, my Dad, who was a retired government employee, and an otherwise educated man (BS, LSU), asked me why couldn’t the federal debt be repudiated.
Said he, “After all, we owe the debt to ourselves, don’t we?”
Well, I am an educated man, too. (BS, Louisiana Tech).
My reply, “First thing that would happen is that government check you get in the mail every month wouldn’t cash.”
End of discussion.
Somebody once repaid a debt to me via post office money order.
My bank wouldn’t take it...apparently they are too easy to counterfeit. I told them I would be glad to wait a week, or even two, for the funds to be made available, so they could be sure the money order cleared...nope.
Then I went on a strange journey, stopping by 4 post offices a couple of times each day, to see if their drawer ever had enough in it to cash the money order. The postal workers didn’t care one bit about my predicament, or their institution’s obligation to redeem the money order.
It took two and a half days to get cashed.
It was a little lesson in how much ‘full faith and credit’ our government institutions really have.
I don’t need a picture of Hell, I live in NY. BTW the plan is to retire in a few years, then LEAVE.
USPS has about 50,000 cashdrawers, so figure $50 a hit ~ and that's several million bucks just sitting there ~ plus there's a risk of robbery.
What you forgot was peeps got bosses ~ just ask for the supervisor next time, or ask for the postmaster. They always have a bit more money in the safe!
Same thing at the bank ~ BTW, if you had an account with the bank they'd taken the money order ~ but if you wanted cash on the spot, the banks are not post offices.
But you can bet that Congress and all federal employees would be paid and Mooch-elle would still have vaca money.
“BTW, if you had an account with the bank they’d taken the money order”
Nope, when I called it ‘MY’ bank, that’s just what I meant - had an account for 20 years.
And I do think my parable is instructive on ‘full faith and credit’. You see, I shouldn’t have to drive around town to cash the money order. Nor should I have to ask to see a boss or have knowledge of thier safe logistics. The fine print on the money order contains a promise of payment, with the only condition being my showing proper ID. The USPS broke that promise. Repeatedly. And as a member of the great unwashed class, I had little recourse.
Let me exonerate myself of cash drawer ignorance. Yes, I am aware that drawers are ‘universal’...I’ve spied these creatures at banks and stores across the land. Now, if its such a problem keeping money in said drawers, a gubmint sponsored institution like the USPS has some other options:
1) Get out of the money order business
2) Limit their money orders to $200 increments. That would allow a serf like me to cash SOME of them at post office #1, and drive across town to cash some more at another post office. Can you see how its immoral to sell $1,000 money orders if they know their drawers start out each day with $20 in nickels.
Finally: “but if you wanted cash on the spot, the banks are not post offices”....which I why I mentioned that I was willing to wait WEEKS to get the money credited to my account.
I hope I’m making my point clearly. I didn’t desperately need the money, as I said I could wait weeks for the thing to clear. So what was my problem? My problem was that sinking feeling in my gut that I was NEVER going to get the money....at least not without hiring a lawyer. So, I lost just a little bit more trust in government institutions that day.
And to that he said?
And once again we learn that you may get an education at LaTech but not LSU unless you specialize in fubbbol and may eventually get out of USL.
Couldn’t resist.
I called my credit union to see if they would cash the bonds. They said, "No, but what was the bank where you tried to cash them?" I said, "PNC." The guy at the CU said, "We get this from people all the time. Go back to the bank and tell them they're a Federal Reserve Bank, and they're required by law to liquidate US instruments."
I went back to the bank, I told them what the guy at the CU said. The clerk said, "No we aren't." I asked for the floor manager, who said, "Yes, we are. We'll give you a receipt and you can come back in 10 business days for your money." Bottom line: Federal employees and their various running dogs will make it as inconvenient as possible for you to use their financial services.
Study that Hieronymus Bosch artwork carefully. It’s the nearest rendering we have of what the inside of a liberal’s mind looks like without actually having to own one ourselves.
So, who was the federal employee?
odds are good no USPS cash drawer has $1000 in it ~ since there are procedures to make sure that doesn’t happen during the day. However, they can cash $1000 money orders ~ and the supervisor or postmaster would have been happy to tell you exactly how that would be done.
“odds are good no USPS cash drawer has $1000 in it”
Well, I found one that had $900 in it....after 2.5 days of trying.
Now what you are telling me is that I should have been savy enough to know that the USPS employees (several employees from four different post offices, different people every day for 2.5 days), who sit at the counter, and are responsible for money transactions with the public....were completely bullsh$tting me.
And (armed with the knowledge that I was treated so poorly) that I should have walked away from this experience, not with a bad taste in my mouth about trusting govermnent sponsored institutions, but with a to-do list to bone up on my ‘how to get USPS employees to do their job’ skills.
I disagree.
I couldn't get anyone on the phone at the ones I called after going to two that were actual post offices, but contracted (not a mail boxes etc, but a contracted post office) - they don't cash them.....finally found one that did cash them. The clerk told me he didn't know if he'd be able to cash just over $200 in PMO, but I was shipping a package as well.
I can't wait until 0care kicks in full bore....all the efficiency and management of the post office with the full customer service and friendliness of the DMV.
Sometimes they'd use the old 'but the employees told me' trick ~ alas that doesn't work with me. They'll drop a dime on a customer in a second ~ 'cause we got ways of watching them work ~ and will instantly refer inquiries about 'how much yo got in yo cash drawer boy' questions to somebody who is NOT sitting at a desk!
Did you see the guy with the gun?
Much of your difficulty is you asked a question that didn't trigger the response you think you wanted ~ ...... bet they've got your picture too.
Small world.
BTW, I’ve had a small taste of Obamacare. I was in the Army....and I have around a dozen ‘war stories’ about the poor standard of care at the hospital that I bore people with.
But, the memory most burned in my mind was the pharmacy. There was a ‘take a number’ dispenser...and the people working there were a wee bit rude and nasty. There was no need for ‘customer service’...we were trapped as customers. I’ve actually had much better experiences at the DMV.
“Much of your difficulty is you asked a question that didn’t trigger the response you think you wanted”
My bad. I thought “I’d like to cash this USPS money order” was the code. I must not have used the right handshake.
“bet they’ve got your picture too”....Thanks for the inside baseball. I had no idea that we lived in a 24/7 surveillance world. There’s probably a camera taping me while I’m crawled under that rock.
“Did you see the guy with the gun?” No. Next time I’ll walk behind the counter and go look for him. But, yes, I am very much impressed.
“cause we got ways of watching them work” - I have been involved in the design of a post office. I may not know how to cash a flipping money order, but I am aware of the viewing gallery. I am impressed that you have knowledge in both areas.
Now this is where the free market comes in...and maybe a glimpse into why the Post Office is insolvent. I will never, ever, under any circumstance, not in a million years, accept a USPS money order again. Now I know it was all my fault for not knowing how to crack the safe or low crawl around the guy with the gun...but still I’m going to shy away. And, quite frankly, I tell everybody I can to avoid them like the plague.
Aaaand...since I did such a poor job of procuring customer satisfaction for myself, I avoid the USPS at all costs. Electronic banking all the way, Fed-Ex for packages, e-mail relatives, the works. I haven’t bought a stamp in years. Once again, I know this is all the result of my own foolishness.
no, not cashing money orders isn't the reason for insolvency ~ you'll need to talk to your fascist pig congress critter about that. that's where the problems are. the PMG has a plan to shut down all sorts of surplus or unneeded capacity at a moment's notice but everyone in Congress has told him NO.
And yes, there are ways to see what went on without a video unit ~ but then, again, there may be video units. no one will tell you. it always draws attention to ask them where the surveillance cameras are.
Ever been to a walmart? their ceilings are almost black now with video monitor housings!
So, you have to go to a COX store.
We arrived in the morning. There were no customers. There were 5 COX employees on duty. Until I did a ringyding on the take a number device not a one of them even looked at me.
I knew that was going to be a bad day.
They did give me a new password and a pin and I went on my way after, of course, canceling my TV service, and discovered the password and pin wouldn't work. Subsequently they wouldn't talk to me over the phone ~ as usual ~ and i will not return to that COX store with anything short of a Howitzer!
If you can get service from someone besides COX do so.
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