Posted on 06/22/2012 6:08:58 PM PDT by SmokingJoe
The Surface tablet unveiled by Microsoft at its mysterious event in Los Angeles this week looked very impressive. It obviously faces very stiff competition from the Apple iPad—which dominates the tablet market. But, there’s a very good chance that businesses will flock to the Surface (or other Windows 8 tablets) if Microsoft delivers something close to what it presented to the media.
I am a huge fan of the iPad, so I don’t make that claim lightly. I have owned all three iterations of the iPad thus far, and I’m not prepared to abandon the New iPad any time soon. That said, I also love Windows, and I appreciate that businesses that rely on Windows PCs and Windows-based applications would love to have something like an iPad that also happens to be Windows. As it happens, I’m also in a position to compare the two side by side…almost. I don’t have a Surface tablet, but I do have a Samsung Series 7 Slate PC running the latest Windows 8 Release Preview. As far as devices actually available today to the general public go, this is about as close as you can get to what you can expect a Windows 8 tablet like the Microsoft Surface to be. --------snip------- The iPad is a tremendous device for working on the go, but it requires a lot of “duct tape and chewing gum”. You have to find apps and workarounds that let you be productive until you can get back to your “real” PC, and find ways to smoothly integrate and sync data between the two. But, with a Windows tablet you just use the same tools and software you always use.
(Excerpt) Read more at pcworld.com ...
The processor spec is a hard one, especially considering that with a tablet it has to be taken with battery life. How little power it sips is an important processor spec these days.
So, how do they stack up? The iPad has much better graphics (three times as powerful), but most of that extra power goes into feeding that ultra high-resolution screen. So in the end that is pretty much a wash.
CPU is where they heavily differentiate. The Tegra 3 has an interesting system, 4 high-clock cores and one low-clock cores. Most of the base functions can be accomplished by the low-clock core at the cost of very little battery life, which is great if your software can stay in that mode most of the time. But it can very quickly it can scale up all cores, which at about 1.4 GHz will suck your battery dry fast. The A5X just has two slower cores. It will not beat the pure CPU performance of the Tegra, in fact the Tegra is about twice as fast, but battery life will be more consistent on the iPad. So, if you want an ARM tablet that can run the most demanding apps, to hell with battery life, you want a Tegra 3.
When you consider that the MacBook Air has a similar spec sheet (Intel i5 processor, onboard Intel graphics, an 11" screen, etc.) and retails for $999, you are getting a comparable (if not superior, based on its compatibility with all of the MS/business software) machine at the same price point and in tablet form!
I don't think it can replace ultrabooks that well. Most people I see using them are on the go. It's on the lap while typing, or on one arm. The Surface can't do that. It must be on a large, hard surface for the attached keyboard idea to work, and that limits its usefulness.
Why would I buy a MacBook Air when I could get a tablet that I can use as a workstation when needed?
That's where the Air really runs out ahead. Workstation to me (and to most) doesn't mean 10" screen. It means docking, using an external monitor and mouse (and maybe keyboard). The Air can run an external 2560x1600 display through the Thunderbolt connector. It can even run an external desktop-class graphics card. I doubt the Surface will be capable of more than 1080p externally.
Right now the ultimate in portable workstations is the new Macbook Pro. It can run two 2560x1600 Thunderbolt displays, a third running 1920x1200 through HDMI passthrough on the last Thunderbolt display, and its own screen all at the same time. Independent tests say you can run video on all screens simultaneously with no lag. And it does all that while being very thin.
You see, anybody can play that with anything if they choose features.
Does your tablet try to be everything to everybody, throwing in all the ports it can, increasing cost and decreasing reliability?
Does your netbook have Firewire? No. Failure. And you call yourself a photographer?
Does it have an Apple Dock connector, opening your world to thousands of accessories? No. Failure.
Flash? Not having Flash is a positive thing, especially on tablets and other low-powered devices. I phrase it as “Does your netbook reject that power-hungry, buggy, security hole ridden software known as Flash?” No? Failure.
3rd Party apps, I’m really loving the iTunes Store. It’s a plus, not a minus. The question he should ask you: Do you have access to the iTunes Store through your netbook? No. Failure.
Apple revealed a working iPhone, demonstrated all aspects of it, released specs, announced prices, and a specific release date. That's a big difference.
You obviously DON'T own an iPad because your complaints are the joke. . . On you. Apple has provided a SD reader and USB adapter since the release of the iPad. There are browsers that allow you to view FLASH content. The lock down of the apps keeps the platform secure from malware.
You obviously DON'T own an iPad because your complaints are the joke. . . On you. Apple has provided a SD reader and USB adapter since the release of the iPad. There are browsers that allow you to view FLASH content. The lock down of the apps keeps the platform secure from malware.
dayglored, these covers have been available for about a year and a half. It's nothing new. I had one for my first generation iPad. I seldom used it. It required finding a flat surface to use it. Not convenient.
Get the Puffin browser for Flash.
I like my iPad for a number of things, but I still find it an issue that it doesn’t do some things without needing something extra- can’t just pull the sd card out of my camera and look at photos, etc.
I would prefer if it was half the size so I could put it in my purse.
But, my biggest complaint about them all (the phones, the tablets) is that the air time (wifi, 3G, 4G whatever) is too dang expensive.
The best arrangement for this seems to be "thumb-typing" using a split keyboard with half the keys arranged down either side of the display.
I think the MS form factor would actually be better suited for this than the iPad.
Shows how out of touch I am with the state of accessories for iPads. :)
iPad-accessory-wise, I bought the Apple "smart cover", and... and... that's it. If I really really need a "real" keyboard, I have my wireless Mac kb which works fine with the iPad, but I, ummm, like you said, "seldom use it".
Tablets are for touch. If I need to type a lot I fire up a laptop, or if I don't have one at hand, I make do with the virtual kb, but that's rare.
Wow, guys. No need to get personal. I was just saying why the Ipad wasn’t for me.
AntiRepublicrat, I DIDN’T call myself a photographer. I said I owned cameras. Why the hostility? Of COURSE anyone can play that game, and they DO, or everyone would own Ipads! I simply pointed out why the Ipad wasn’t for me. I even said that Ipads are well engineered and entertaining. But in the end, capitalism is all about choosing the product that suits your needs. Are you saying I should quit “playing the game” and settle for what YOU want?
Swordmaker, I’m sorry you misunderstood what I was saying, but calling me a joke is uncalled for. I didn’t insult you, and there was NO need for you to insult me.
If you really want to make a point, you’ll have much better credibility if you can do it in a respectful manner.
Besides, you were late to the conversation...if you look, AntiRepublicrat already said there was an adapter, and I simply said I’d prefer the Ipad have them built in and I was uncomfortable with add-ons that I’d have to carry around with me to get those capabilities. And, BTW, on my netbook, EVERY browser (Chrome and Firefox) has Flash and I don’t have to switch to watch a video or play a game. And, maybe I’m missing something, but is there a “universal” media player like VLC for the Ipad? You didn’t specify this, so maybe if you have something in mind, I’ll see if I can put it on my Ipod Touch to try it out.
It doesn’t matter, though. I still like my netbook. I’m sorry that you guys are upset that I’m not happy with an Ipad, but I always assumed capitalism was about the consumer making choices about what they wanted to buy?
Apparently, neither of you read the last line of my previous post:
“I’m just one person, though. If others find the Ipad or Surface useful, and they’re willing to pay for either, that’s great. Capitalism is a wonderful thing.”
Was I wrong? And can we discuss it civilly?
The MacBook Air that I priced (from Apple's own website) had an Intel i5 and a Intel 4000 integrated graphics chip. The processor specs are pretty much the same for the Surface Pro, and the GPU is rumored to be the 4000 or its successor (granted we won't know for sure until full specs are released). Meaning, to everyone except fanbois, the two will perform about the same. If the Air can push a 2560 X 1600 external monitor... then the Surface Pro will (it's the same hardware). If the Surface comes around $1000 then it will offer the same basic performance as a lower-end Air for the same price... but in a different form factor. That form factor might be a serious selling point for businesses.
No offense, but I don't care what you think of when you hear "workstation"... especially when you start comparing the Surface Pro to MacBook Pros that will probably cost between $200 and $1200 dollars more. I know several businessmen whose office provides them with both laptop computers to use as workstations (with a single 20-22 inch LCD monitor... they aren't in software development) and tablets to use on the factory floor (or elsewhere). I'll bet those businesses would jump at the opportunity to give them one piece of hardware that will do both adequately!
Businesses aren't interested in "flashy". They want solid (often middling) performance, at a bargain if possible. A tablet that seamlessly integrates with their existing systems and potentially replaces separate units might be attractive (we'll see)...
Except that the Air likely has more RAM and faster SSD, you're probably about right.
If the Air can push a 2560 X 1600 external monitor... then the Surface Pro will (it's the same hardware)
The missing hardware on the Surface is called Thunderbolt. In the Mac's case it carries DisplayPort signals. The Surface only has HDMI, which probably means max 1920×1200 at 60 Hz, if even that is supported. As a tablet, the Surface is meant to display your movies on a big TV, not to have a big monitor set up, so support for that is up in the air right now.
No offense, but I don't care what you think of when you hear "workstation"
A workstation usually means a higher-end computer, as opposed to just a regular desktop. For the more purist definition, you're usually talking server-class hardware -- ECC memory, Xeon processors, option for dual processors, etc., and you're into CAD, a pro graphics card.
They want solid (often middling) performance, at a bargain if possible.
One reason Mac notebooks sell so well. They are very solid and sturdy. Unlike most of the competition, they don't feel like a toy. And good businesses don't think purchase price, they think TCO. Macs have always had a lower TCO even if the purchase price was higher.
A tablet that seamlessly integrates with their existing systems and potentially replaces separate units might be attractive
That is a likely use case.
"The Ipad should have either an SD or MicroSD port, standard. For the price, there’s no excuse."
That's a more absolute statement, not personal preference. Price wasn't the reason for the exclusion. Neither was negligence. It was a solid engineering and use-case decision.
I’d prefer the Ipad have them built in and I was uncomfortable with add-ons that I’d have to carry around with me to get those capabilities.
Yet you're comfortable with the add-on of a different type of SD card adapter.
And, BTW, on my netbook, EVERY browser (Chrome and Firefox) has Flash and I don’t have to switch to watch a video or play a game.
Did you know Windows 8's mobile Metro browser only allows Flash for a select group of whitelisted sites like Hulu to avoid most of Flash's problems (and of course killing Flash's strongest point, its nature as a ubiquitous platform)? Flash is dying in the mobile space, and rightfully so. One day it will be dead on the desktop too. And I say this as a former Flash developer. Its time has passed, stick a fork in it.
I’m sorry that you guys are upset that I’m not happy with an Ipad
I don't care if you're not happy, but far too often solid engineering and use-case decisions are derided as stupid deficiencies. Funny part is, then the industry follows Apple's lead and suddenly those things are no longer quite so bad, or even good. Sealed batteries were a totally stupid thing Apple did, until Nokia, HTC and others started doing that. Now it's considered a feature that just some users may not like. Same for the decision not to include an SD card slot, stupid for an iPhone, but just fine on a Nokia Lumia 900. Android users laughed at Apple's decision not to include Flash, until Flash on their platform started crashing their phones and sucking their batteries dry. Now Adobe has stopped development of Flash for Android, and Chrome for Android won't support Flash.
The surface IS a working tablet. Some of the top technology magazines/sites/writers including Wired had hands on with it, and for the most part, were pretty impressed with t.
Wired:
"Hands-On With Microsoft Surface Tablet for Windows RT
“But how does the device actually look and feel up close?
I spent some hands-on time with Microsoft Surface for Windows RT right after the announcement
The Surface tablet is definitely impressive, and it’s clear that Microsoft is serious about manufacturing full-fledged mobile hardware. The company’s hardware division, most known for making mice and keyboards, has come out of its software counterpart’s shadow to create a tablet that can rival the iPad and wipe out Android devices
It’s a simple setup, and again, it just plain works....
From what I saw at the event, Surface is a serious, refined, clever piece of hardware. The tablet is well-built, and comes with a lot of cool features #151; like the kickstand and available ports — that comparable tablets lack”
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/06/hands-on-with-microsoft-surface-tablet-for-windows-rt/
Links for plenty of other hands on reviews from other tech sites:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=hands+on+with+surface+tablet&gbv=2&oq=hands+on+with+surface+tablet&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=hp.3...3625.10595.0.10860.28.20.0.8.3.0.78.1030.20.20.0...0.0.LsCaKhkMGpc
“released specs, announced prices, and a specific release date”
I am not worried about release date and prices right now. The price will be announced when the release date is announced. After all, its not for sale for a few months yet(same as the iPhone wasn't for sale for some months after its announcement), so why be in a hurry to specify the price?
“That's a big difference”
Only in the eyes of fanatic Applebots, who are in a panic over the rave reviews that the surface has been getting, and are looking for something to nick pick over.
Companies do that(announce a new product without a price/shipping date) all the time.
For example, Nintendo just announced their new Wii video game console(called Wii U), at the huge just completed E3 video game exposition, with all kinds of great new games for it that they demonsrtated, but then gave no indication of the price or the launch date all, except we know it will probably be launched before the holidays at the end of the year.:
Wii U launch date/price rumors etc here:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=wii+u+launch+date&gbv=2&oq=wii+u+launch+date&aq=f&aqi=g3g-m1&aql=&gs_l=hp.3..0l3j0i5.1141.5860.0.6938.17.13.0.4.4.0.62.594.13.13.0...0.0.Ath3zHTJl_g
I don't remember any Applebots making an issue of that, or any Applebots screaming out when at the just completed big computer show in Taiwan(Computex), so many ODM’s lined up to show a wide range of their upcoming Windows 8 tablets/hybrids, and not even one of them had a shipping date or price on it. But then the moment Microsoft comes out with a surface tablet that is just wowing the tech press, the rabid Applebots are out in force screaming: “We demand a price and shipping date”.
For what?
You are not buying one anyways, so why demand a price/shipping date?
Re-read what I wrote, Flaming. I did not insult you or claim you were a joke. I said your complaints were the joke and it was on you. Not that you were personally were a joke. The fault lay in your accepting non-facts you heard from non-authoritative sources, iPad FUD spreaders, most of whom have not used one and have no experience with one, in forming your opinion of the capabilities of the device. You then speak on this forum as with a voice of authority repeating the erroneous "facts" that you have merely heard from those sources.
I'm NOT demanding either. I'm pointing out that Apple never announces a product without providing specs, working product in all aspects, shipping date, and price.
As to the "hands on" experience in your article, I reiterate my comment that the product is not yet fully functioning. From your linked Wired article:
But as much as the tablet promises stellar build quality, there are still several question marks. For one, Microsoft wouldn’t let anyone actually test the keyboard function of the Touch Cover or the Type Cover. Nonetheless, PR reps kept assuring us that you can type very quickly on it — more than 50 words per minute, according to one Surface team member.In other words, it's not fully functional yet; not ready for prime time.
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