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Posted on 04/17/2012 1:38:28 PM PDT by WPaCon
In practical politics, what we call the conservative movement in America is a coalition of several interests and bodies of opinion. In popular journalism, the word "conservative" has come to imply virtually any person who resists the great grim tendency tow a rd a totalist state; or perhaps anybody who sets his face against Communism. So we ought not to be surprised that within this camp called conservative there flourish factions and deep differences of opinion. It is only in their opposition to Leviathan tha t the several factions join forces. I have been asked to offer you four lectures on the varieties of the conservative impulse, my general title playing on William James's book 77ie Varieties ofRefigious Experience. So I mean to take up, during this year, f o ur aspects of this subject: the ideas and approaches of the cultural conservatives, the libertarians, the neo-conservatives, and, in another lecture of the series, the popular conservatism of the American people. I confess that this general subject is not wholly congenial to my temperament: for my own tendency is to avoid fission and to promote amicable relationships among groups that have common objectives. I do not wish to consign to arbitrary categories persons who object to being ideologically tagged.
Conservative Impulse. Still less do I desire to manufacture an ideology called conservatism, and demand conformity to its political dogmas. For the conservative impulse is the negation of ideology. Conservatives do not believe that man and society may be p erfected through revolutionary politics - the conviction that lies at the heart of every ideology.
(Excerpt) Read more at heritage.org ...
I'll later post his speeches on libertarians, popular conservatives, and neoconservatives.
You can’t be a conservative without being a “cultural conservative,” because the very term itself means “someone who conserves” presumably what already exists. A conservative, therefore, would want to conserve traditional society as we had in this country for 170+ years.
bump
Your contention is not well supported by the argument you’ve presented.
It is possible to want to conserve the economic liberty the Founders provided and thereby be a conservative. Nothing requires us to want to conserve all ( e.g.Slavery) of what the Founders gave us to be a conservative.
The question: “Why should I not do as I please within the law, so long as I harm no-one else?” would, at all earlier times, have drawn one or both of the answers: “Because it offends God” or “Because you will become a social outcast”.
The first of these has no force for our new elites, who do not believe in God; the second is not only without force for them, it is without meaning. To exclude a person from one’s drawing-room because their personal pleasures are aberrant would be “discrimination”.
John Derbyshire, Posted by Harrius Magnus
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2029535/posts?page=1#29
The Soviets in Russia around 20 years ago could also have been called "conservative." The problem is that the word conservative has no well-defined meaning.
It would be more accurate if conservatives defined themselves in more concrete terms, such as saying that they support Christian society and morals or free enterprise economics or foreign policy interventionism, instead of the more vague terms like "social conservative," "fiscal conservative," and "foreign policy conservative."
What you just called in your reply - “vague terms like “social conservative,” “fiscal conservative,” and “foreign policy conservative.” the Russel Kirk article you posted calls “the cultural conservatives, the libertarians, the neo-conservatives “
The question before us right now is, will these three be able to unite to stop the progressive republican who is seemingly cruising toward the 2012 presidential nomination?
The actual correct terms, generally, are these
Today’s Conservative - Classic Liberal or 19th Century Liberal
Today’s Liberal - Socialist or Social Democrat at best
A true Conservative would be a supporter of monarchy and clericalism, think 19th Century Austria-Hungary.
During the Liberal Revolutions of 1848 in Europe, the United States was a strong supporter of the revolutionary movements. Right up to Jan 2009, the US was the bastion of Classic Liberalism. The Muslim Brotherhood does not fit the bill.
They thought I was crazy for saying that those types of people are the true right-wing extremists and ultra-conservatives.
Here's the thread:
You probably think so because you didn't well understand the argument I made.
It is possible to want to conserve the economic liberty the Founders provided and thereby be a conservative. Nothing requires us to want to conserve all ( e.g.Slavery) of what the Founders gave us to be a conservative.
Irrelevant. We didn't have slavery up until the late 1960s, which is what the numeric I provided calcs to. I realise that I didn't spend six paragraphs spelling out each and every last thing that I was implicitly referring to, but I rather thought the reader might use some common sense.
Generally when I get a defensive angry response from someone, I’ve found a weak spot. “Conservative” means to be in favor if conserving. Conserving economic freedom is just as “ conservative” as conserving social norms. Your position is weak.
Defensive angry?
You don’t get out much, do you?
Sorry, but your definition of “conservative,” in the American context, is only a partial one.
So let me get this straight. You count yourself a true conservative because you long for the 1960’s after FDR savaged the constitution and thirty years of democrat control of congress but I, who longs for the economic liberty the Founders gave us, am no a true conservative.
Is that about the point you’re making? Really?
No, that wasn’t the point I was making, actually.
I see, it’s just the words you were using.
Other people on the thread didn’t seem to have a problem understanding what I said...
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