Mormons 'face more bigotry than black Americans'...

UK Daily Mail ^ | January 13, 2012 | Staff

[C19fan]

Nearly half of Mormons say church members face significant discrimination in the United States, and a third believe voters are not ready to elect Mitt Romney, or any other member of their church, president.

.........................................................

The Pew study found that almost half of Mormons in the U.S. consider themselves more discriminated against than African Americans.

[greyfoxx39]

Trying to debate a Mormon vs Christianity is like trying to pick up mercury wearing rubber gloves.

;0)

[SkyDancer]

After thinking about that I’d rather go after the mercury. It’d be easier.

[Elsie]

I think LDS has plenty in common with Christians of all denominations.

Likewise...

I know LDS has plenty in common with HERESIES of all stripes.

[Elsie]

I think sometimes people blow up the differences to be a major problem. That’s why it’s surprising to come on FR and find people getting so upset about Mormonism.

I am suprised that YOU, Norm, will not Reject or Affirm the words said by your leaders.

But, you are in good(?) company as NONE of the FR mormons will do it either.

It's shown right above; #30.

Will you CONTINUE to ignore?

[Elsie]

Office of First President & Living Prophet

November 1st, 2011

The message for this month is -

...to stay on our mantra: We ARE Christians!!

We've been taking a beating on the Internet - especially from those hateful ANTIs on FreeRepublic!

 

We MUST keep the media constantly informed of those things the world considers christian.

We must NOT allow our MORMONness to show thru, as it has gotten a really bad rap thru history - lord only knows why...

 

 

Tommy

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“We believe in God,”
... you forgot to mention Gods - lots of them!

“believe in Jesus Christ as the Savior,”
... you forgot to mention the Jesus you believe in was created and consequently, is unable to save.

“believe in living according to the teachings of Jesus.”
... and of course living according to Jesus’ teachings is a good thing. Truth with action is even better.

[svcw]

THX 1138

[Scoutmaster]

I'm not LDS, but I work with LDS. I'm also friends with LDS who understand what all the fuss is about. I support the right of LDS to believe as they choose.

I read LDS members who say they believe in Jesus Christ; I read others who talk about LDS polytheism, and exaltation to gods; and how God was a man who was exalted; and how Jesus and Lucifer are two of God's many children; and how works are necessary for salvation; and more. And I read people like Bill McKeever. How would you respond to him, as a LDS member? Are his points valid? He seems to target LDS prophets' statements that run contrary to your of similar values, ideals and hopes.

Bill McKeever, the founder of the Mormonism Research Ministry, had this response to the two claims that: (1) it's ridiculous to suggest that the LDS faith is in some important sense outside of the Christian fold, and (2) Latter-day Saints never level harsh criticism at other faiths or at their adherents.

But let me see if I understand this correctly, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Let's see. You say my church is "wrong"¹, you say my creeds are an "abomination""², my pastor is "corrupt""³, my Heavenly Father is 'invented'"⁴, my Jesus is "mythical""⁵, my Trinity is a "monster""⁶, my justification is "pernicious""⁷, my grace is a "fallacious doctrine originated by Satan""⁸, and my Bible is not trustworthy. "⁹ Then when I attempt to offer any sort of disagreement or rebuttal, you accuse me of hatred and bigotry, or even of being 'un-Christlike'. And if that isn't enough, to add insult to injury, you want to steal my name [of 'Christian']! Let me just say, folks: not on my watch. I am not going to be manipulated by people that try to use these type of measures to coerce me into embracing an organization that teaches things that are blatantly unbiblical, just so that we might have peace.

---

¹1 Joseph Smith History 1:19
² Joseph Smith History 1:19; Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed. (Salt Lake City, UT: Bookcraft, 1979), 440-441; Hyrum M. Smith, "Discourse by Elder Hyrum M. Smith", Liahona The Elders' Journal 14/27 (2 January 1917): 419.
³ Joseph Smith History 1:19; Parley P. Pratt, Key to the Science of Theology (Liverpool: F. D. Richards, 1855), 167; Hyrum M. Smith, "Discourse by Elder Hyrum M. Smith", Liahona The Elders' Journal 14/27 (2 January 1917): 418-419.
⁴ Edward L. Kimball, ed., Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball (Salt Lake City, UT: Bookcraft, 1995), 426.
⁵ Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed. (Salt Lake City, UT: Bookcraft, 1979), 269.
⁶ Joseph Smith, "Sermon in the Grove", 16 June 1844, quoted in History of the Church 6:476, and reprinted in Joseph F. Smith, comp., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith (Salt Lake City, UT: Deseret Book, 1977), 372. The word "monster" was added in the reconstruction of the sermon, and does not appear in Thomas Bullock's original notes, though these themselves make clear that Joseph Smith leveled a great deal of hostile mockery at this sacred and central Christian teaching, and certainly whoever introduced that particular word was also LDS.
⁷ James E. Talmage, The Articles of Faith (Salt Lake City, UT: Deseret News, 1899), 120; Joseph Fielding Smith, The Restoration of All Things (Salt Lake City, UT: Deseret News, 1945), 192.
⁸ Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness (Salt Lake City, UT: Bookcraft, 1969), 206.
⁹ Articles of Faith 8; Orson Pratt, Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon (1850), reprinted in A Series of Pamphlets on the Doctrines of the Gospel (Salt Lake City, UT: Juvenile Instructor Office, 1884), 218-220; Neal A. Maxwell, "The Wondrous Restoration", Ensign (April 2003), 35.

[pennyfarmer]

What ever you do don’t ask about the nature of God. Its Anti-mormon.

[MHGinTN]

Nice try Norm, but you are just promoting the same bait and dwitch common to all mormonISM apologist ... start the plea with the ISM as focus but shift to the adherents and thus escape discussing the heresies and blasphemies at the heart of the ISM. You are practicing deceit when you do that, Norm. and I think you know it. Let me give you an example of this bait and switch, using the quote of one of your own 'apostles'.

here is a direct and honest quote right from your religion's Journal of Discourses though so highly of by the leadership of your religion:

"We may talk of men being redeemed by the efficacy of his [Christ's] blood; but the truth is that that blood has no efficacy to wash away our sins. That must depend upon our own action." [ LDS Apostle Amasa M. Lyman, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 299, 1859]

The Journal of Discourses are a compiled record of what has been taught as the foundational beliefs of Mormonism. Amasa Lyman was a devout man. He did not steal or get drunk, he did not make a habit of deceiving people else he could not be an apostle in the LDS hierarchy. His life stands as a witness to his devotion to his family and his Church.

Notice in the above italicized paragraph I started with a declaration on The Journal of Discourses, but instead of defending the teaching from Amasa Lyman, I shifted my plea to what a good man Amasa Lyman was. In this bait and switch technique, I avoid addressing and thus having to defend the blasphemous statement from Amasa Lyman which is found among the past teachings of your religion.

In seeking to remove the focus from the heretical assertion from Lyman that is found cherished by LDS inc publication in the Journal of Discourses I have purposely divert attention thus I have practiced to deceive the reader.

Notice, I have not called you a liar. This practice to deceive by diverting attention is something lawyers do frequently, and the courts do not hold them accountable for lying to the court. Purposely diverting attention from something/a blasphemy you wish to avoid defending and thus letting it slide, when so great an issue as the Blood of Christ as THE ONLY CLEANSING means for we sinners, is a despicable ploy, however. But then, pretending that mormonISM is 'restored Christianity' is a despicable behavior too, and one of the reasons mormonISM apologist like yourself are still openly opposed at Freerepublic.

[Tennessee Nana]

a discourse delivered by Joseph Smith July 19 - 1840....

“We shall build the Zion of the Lord in peace untill the servants of that Lord shall begin to lay the foundation of a great and high watch Tower and then shall they begin to say within themselves, what need hath my Lord of this tower seeing this is a time of peace &c. Then the Enemy shall come as a thief in the night and scatter the servants abroad.

When the seed of these 12 Olive trees are scattered abroad they will wake up the Nations of the whole Earth. Even this Nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground and when the constitution is upon the brink of ruin this people will be the Staff up[on] which the Nation shall lean and they shall bear the constitution away from the very verge of destruction.” (The Historians Corner, BYU Studies, Vol. 19, No. 3, p. 391-392)

Whats different about the Constitution in 2012 that wasnt there in 1840 ???

What would Joey Smith consider to be destructive to American Law and liberty and culture ???

1. Well in 1840 black men and women were not considered full citizens of the United States...Joey Smith claimed only “white and delightsome” men had any rights to enjoy the privileges of living in America and being equal to others...

That belief was shattered as the Constitution suffered a large tear in 1868 with the passing of the 14th Amendment...

Black men and women were now full citizens of the United States..

2. In 1840 when Joey Smith and his ACORN cohorts went to vote no black man lined up to cast a ballot...

Black men did not have the right to vote and in 1840 it did not look like they would ever get that privilege

And the Mormons never dreamed they ever would...

However in 1870 they did get the vote...

The Constitution was torn some more when the 15th Amendment was passed..

Black men could now vote...

3. In 1840 Women did not have the right to vote either...

In Mormon circles they were regarded as property by Joey Smith and his Mormon cohorts...sex slaves to be used and passed around amongst the “brethren”.. 12 year olds and married women were not off limits to their lust..

Slaves dont have any rights nor do they vote and have a voice..

Those Mormon guys never dreamed that one day that same unimportant gender would have the same right to vote...

But it happened in 1920..

the Constitution was insulted with further vile damage in 1820 when the 19th Amendment was passed...

Women could now vote..

(Note: Any voting opportunity that was accorded to women in Utah Territory during Briggy Youngs theocratic dictatorship was not for the benefit of the women..

It was not a right and a privilege for her civil enjoyment but rather as an extention of the guy she was concubine to..

he voted using his own ballot and again using the ballots of his several common lawe “wives”

He would tell her how to mark the ballot or mark it himself in her place..)

4. In the 1840 world of Joey Smith black men and women did not enjoy the same civil rights as white men and women..

Briggy Young would have told you “it will always be so” and that his Mormon god or gods decreed it so...

However in 1964 President Lynden Johnson passed the Civil Right Act giving equal rights to blacks...

Although this law was not an amendment to the Constitution, it did effect the way the individual citizens were to be treated by the government and others..

The constitution did get a loose thread or two from the awful fall out..

5. In 1840 there wasnt a particular age or marital situation of the Mormon missionaries who were sent out to spread Joey Smith’s message of the Mormon religion to the world...

Many were older and married...

But during the next century mostly single boys age 18-19 were sent ...

Long before they were allowed to vote ...and before they reached their “majority” of 21 and were their own men ..

However in 1971 the 26th Amendment to the Constitution was passed...

Now 18 year old boys were men with the right to vote..

How this effected the quiet submission of boys bound for Mormon missions from TBM homes isd anyones guess, but I do not think there would have been an over all consensus in the population of nrely minted men..

In fact to the Mormons mindset, the Constitution had just taken another hit..

6, In 1840 women were not equal to men in law oe xulture and Joey Smith happily took advantage of that lessor position of females...

But as more women got to read and were edusated during the 129th century, they realized that they had the same rights and privileges under God as men had...

They started to stand up for themselves and their sisters and through legislation gained more and more equality to men...

In 1972 right or wrong a new Amendment to the Constitution was proposed to the states for ratification...

The Equal Rights Amendment..

It never passed but the faint hearts in Temple Square must have felt the end was near at hand...

Did this mean that women would how have to be allow to be priests ???

The danger passed and the boys in the bakers hoods gave out a collective sigh of sacred relief..

and the Constitution for what it is worth took a squirt of feminine perfume and was stained ..

7. Mormon historians will eagerly tell you that in 1840 it seems Joey Smith let black men be Mormon priests just like the white men...

However the reasons and emphisis was not the same and Joey Smith still looked on black men as slaves and property..

Joey Smith was just copying the practices of his New England home states...

For many years churches in the north east had let the black slaves join the churches of their masters, even baptising them into fellowship and adding their names to the rolls...

However they were never deacons or pastors over WHITE MEN..

and they stood up in the special slave balcony and never sat on the floor in the pews with the “decent” white folks...

Joey Smith was of the same racist and condescending attitude..

But that opportunity to be a Mormon priest didnt last for black men...

It was gone about the time Briggie Young was self appointed governor of Utah Territory...

amnd the white and delightsome Mormon men enjoyed their exclusive meembership in their pagan priesthood all by themselves unhindered by any “seed of Cain”

Imagine if you while the dismay of the priests of Baal err Mormonism when Jimmy Carter demanded that they change their racist policies...

Why high priest and bishop Willirad Mitt Romney evben cried in rage and tore his clothes when he heard in 1978 that the current elected Mormon president Spencer W. Kimball had announced black men could now be full priests alomg with white men...

The Constitution was ripped some more down to a thread or two that dark day...

Now the chance for the Brotherhood of Mormons to fulkfill the White Horse Propercy of Joey Smith is near at hand...

A chance to put a Mormon president on the throne in the Oval Office of the United States

(Although there is already a Mormon in the White House he is black and not white...)

Will the White Horse Propercy be fulfilled in Williard Mitt Romney ???

Will finally the Mormons get to gallop to the rescue like the Calvary ot Canadian Mounties or Superman and save the Constitution that they see as “hanging by a thread” ???

[Graybeard58]

Thread bump!

Thanks for posting the following, I’ve been looking for that quote and it bears repeating:

“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet...When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go.” (FLDS/LDS “PROPHET” JOESEPH SMITH, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409)

[Normandy]

Hi SZ,

I know there are differences between faiths. Doctrines and practices differ, but I don’t see the need to get angry if someone has a different faith to mine.

My guess is that if I sat down to dinner with any of the posters on this thread, we’d probably get along fine and find that we would have plenty in common. I think it would be a lot more pleasant than some of the communications about Mormonism that goes on here.

I, and many of my fellow latter-day saints try to follow the teachings and example of Jesus, as do so many Christians. There’s a lot we can all agree on and be in harmony with — which is more enjoyable and productive than focusing on what are perceived to be faults and errors.

Best to all,

Normandy

[Colofornian]

I, and many of my fellow latter-day saints try to follow the teachings and example of Jesus, as do so many Christians. There’s a lot we can all agree on and be in harmony with — which is more enjoyable and productive than focusing on what are perceived to be faults and errors.

Tell you what...go take some scissors & clip out Joseph Smith History vv. 18-20...(PoGP); D&C 1:30; and BoM 1 Nephi chapters 13 & 14 of all of your quads & any versions of these so-called Mormon "scriptures"...

And advocate to your friends & family to do the same...

And THEN you can at least get to first base re: Mormon civility.

Until you do that your personal MormonISM remains hostile toward Christianity from its "scriptures" on up...

[reaganaut]

Preach it, Sista!

[caww]

What mormons say they believe and what they actually do believe are two entirely different things. Anybody can claim what you posted for the saying of it and many cults and false religions always usse Christian verbage...for obvious reasons.

I’ve had atheists as neighbors and they too are friendly, love country, family and friends and willing to be helpful when they can. That does not make them Christian because they’re behavior is such.

Mormons have “adopted” the Christian verbage because without it your leadership would have fallen long ago and with it the organizaation...

Mormonism is a counterfeit Christianity from front to back. Everything about it is a “copy”....until the BOM....which is a farce.

[caww]

Wow....now that’s telling it exactly as it is..good read too!

PS. I have a new cat draped across my lap! ;)

[Normandy]

Until someone has the ability to look into another’s heart and mind and know what they know and feel and believe, they cannot say with accuracy that their faith in Jesus Christ is false or fake.

Only God has that ability, and all judgment is committed to His Son who can make that judgment perfectly. It should be left up to Him. It is no small thing to accuse falsely, and we could later regret doing so.

[caww]

I am not going to get into the touchy feely side of Mormonism and other false religions of the like today....rather it is the teachings of Mormonism which dis qualify it from being Christian.

We can look into Gods word in determining the standards of what is Christianity... we as Christians are called to do just that for any institute or organization which attempts to mimic Christianity in order to bait unsuspecting individuals. Mormons teachings do not past the tests of Christianity.. and why overall the Christian community does not accept the religion as Christian...it's not.

On the contrary Mormonism gives full evidence of meeting all the standards of a false religion/cult which has superimposed a mask of Christianity to look like it's Christian and to hide it's true teachings...it's a counterfeit and leads many away from the true Christ of Christianity....

The last person who is in a position to determine if or not Mormonism is Christian are it's members. For all they're work is that of deception once they are indoctrinated.

[Elsie]

... you forgot to mention Gods - lots of them!

---

(click)

Praise to the Man!

 

 

 

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assasins,
Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know 'Brother Joseph' again.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.