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On the gun-control theory of ATF's Fast and Furious
Arizona Daily Star ^ | November 2, 2011 | Tim Steller

Posted on 11/07/2011 8:35:43 PM PST by george76

The theory, in brief, is that the Obama administration deliberately pumped guns into Mexico through Operation Fast and Furious in an effort to create a justification to impose gun control measures. I boiled the theory down to this...:

1. Obama and Holder support gun control but needed a pretext to implement it.

2. The administration argued falsely in 2009 that U.S. guns made up 90 percent of those used in Mexican gun crimes. That was the same time when Operation Fast and Furious began.

3. By flooding Mexico with high-powered weapons they were able to justify restrictions on U.S. guns. In fact, in July 2011, the administration put in place a rule requiring border-state firearms dealers to report anyone who buys more than one assault-type rifle within a five-day period.

Those are the basic concepts that I could fit in the story, but there are a couple of other worthwhile points to make in support of the theory.

ATF agent and whistleblower Vince Cefalu, who spoke at a Sept. 26 Tucson Tea Party event ... supports the gun-control theory. One of his key points is his analysis of the goals of Fast and Furious and gunwalking: “I don’t know what they were thinking, because nothing they have portrayed they were thinking makes any sense. It defies logic, common sense.”

...

Another point, made to me by John Lott, the author of "More Guns, Less Crime," is that a variety of agencies became involved in Fast and Furious, including DEA and FBI. When multiple agencies become involved, Lott said, it becomes more necessary for political appointees in D.C. to consider and approve plans.

(Excerpt) Read more at azstarnet.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; Mexico; News/Current Events; US: Arizona; US: New Mexico; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: 90percentlie; atf; banglist; bhofascism; bloodoftyrants; castaway; cia; clinton; corruption; dea; democrats; dhs; doj; fastandfurious; fbi; fraud; govtabuse; guncontrol; gunrunner; gunwalker; hillary; hillaryclinton; holder; ice; mythof90percent; obama; statedept; tyranny; undertheradar; waronliberty; youwillnotdisarmus
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1 posted on 11/07/2011 8:35:45 PM PST by george76
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To: Joe Brower; Travis McGee; LucyT; vette6387; MetaThought; 60Gunner; XHogPilot; FreedomPoster; ...
See John Lott's comments in the last paragraph...


JUST DO IT!

2 posted on 11/07/2011 8:47:35 PM PST by MestaMachine (obama kills)
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To: neverdem; LucyT

Operation Fast and Furious


3 posted on 11/07/2011 8:48:16 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76

That is the only thing which fits what was done. There could be no other reason for sending such large quantities of guns other than to push for gun control. They then claim those crimes were due to U.S. guns in Mexico.

I can’t see any other thing which fits the facts. The only other possibility and I don’t believe it would be to supply revolutionaries in Mexico.


4 posted on 11/07/2011 8:49:24 PM PST by yarddog
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To: george76

I’m having trouble linking to the source, but I am convinced that the current feds can f_ck up a crow bar in a sand pile, even if their motives are pure. In this case they were most definately not pure and the fruit of their motive rotted before their planned harvest.

I’d classify it as Sedition.


5 posted on 11/07/2011 8:53:03 PM PST by One Name
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To: george76
Hence, gunwalking was permitted in Operation Wide Receiver as well as Operation Fast and Furious.

Bush did it too defense, will not work. Wide receiver did not run guns into Mexico.

6 posted on 11/07/2011 9:03:02 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: yarddog; jazusamo

Holder to call for tighter gun control in Fast & Furious testimony tomorrow


7 posted on 11/07/2011 9:16:37 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76

Not a new tactic. LaPierre (NRA) accused Clinton of the same.


8 posted on 11/07/2011 9:23:47 PM PST by Jumpmaster (Defund the Left!)
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To: george76

Where are the positive examples of this noble operation? /HEAVY SARCASM

Treason and pre-meditated, agenda-driven murder.


9 posted on 11/07/2011 9:35:06 PM PST by PGalt
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To: george76

Remember also that when Operation Wide Receiver was in operation under Bush they put tracer’s on EVERY gun, and got them back.

NONE of the guns Obama/Holder sent to Mexico had tracers on them. They never intended them to be traced, and they wanted no evidence on them the ATF was involved.


10 posted on 11/07/2011 9:35:30 PM PST by RowdyFFC
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To: MestaMachine; Berlin_Freeper; Hotlanta Mike; Silentgypsy; repubmom; HANG THE EXPENSE; Nepeta; ...
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

See John Lott's comments in the last paragraph...

11 posted on 11/07/2011 10:23:30 PM PST by LucyT
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To: george76
The theory, in brief, is that the Obama administration deliberately pumped guns into Mexico through Operation Fast and Furious in an effort to create a justification to impose gun control measures

Intuitively Obvious To The Most Casual Observer.

12 posted on 11/07/2011 10:23:30 PM PST by Rytwyng (I'm still fond of the United States. I just can't find it. -- Fred Reed)
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To: george76

We are in the middle of two-year long national election. You’d think one of these yahoos would be creaming about this AT the media 24/7. Just one of them.


13 posted on 11/07/2011 10:25:07 PM PST by Dogbert41 (Israel is real:))
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To: yarddog
There could be no other reason for sending such large quantities of guns other than to push for gun control.

Actually, there is another reason, and it would make F&F even uglier.

The feds claim over 2000 weapons bought with our money, and "sanitized" by eliminating all traces of criminality. How many have been recovered? What's to say that most of them are in some unmarked federal warehouse, or stored in the mail room at BATF and FBI offices all over the country.

It's a large stash of sanitized weapons with no "flags" on them, and never put in any database. Great for any time a throwdown "assault weapon" is needed. It can be traced right back to the FFL dealer, where the dealer will be blamed for it. The CIA would also like a supply of American weapons that can appear when needed, with no criminal history behind them.

It wasn't just "under the radar gun control". The other main advantage, which explains why so many agencies involved, was to establish a supply of photogenic Evil Black Rifle that can only be traced back to a legitimate dealer, who unfortunately wound up in jail, while the gun runner died from a bad case of "suicide by cop".

14 posted on 11/07/2011 10:48:26 PM PST by 300winmag (Overkill Never Fails)
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To: george76
In the first innings of this game, I asked why a person would buy an American gun from a dealer to export to Mexico? It would be so much cheaper to go to Chavez, or any one of a dozen other cheaper places if you are a drug dealer looking for guns. AK47's are all over the globe for less than $100. Even Somalia is overrun with guns, even rockets and machine guns. Nigeria, Ethiopia, Bolivia, Ecuador, you name it, they have guns. Maybe a .50 cal or some specialty gun would have to come from America, but the average assault rifle costs too much in the US.

I never dreamed the government would be providing the guns to Mexico, I thought they were just lying about the amount. Now it makes sense how the numbers are traced to the US,........ because Obama sold them. I would venture to say that the number of American guns in Mexico is more like 10% if you discount the thousands provided by Holder.

15 posted on 11/07/2011 11:13:03 PM PST by chuckles
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To: chuckles
I asked the same question because, as you pointed out: "It would be so much cheaper to go to Chavez, or any one of a dozen other cheaper places if you are a drug dealer looking for guns."

The only reason I can surmise is that our tax dollars paid for the guns. Who would pass up a freebie throw away crime gun (to be) among the Cartels?

16 posted on 11/08/2011 3:15:00 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; wku man; SLB; ...
Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!
17 posted on 11/08/2011 5:04:06 AM PST by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: george76

My liberal family members are always talking about how conservatives are curtailing personal freedom. They cite limits on abortion, restrictions on Fetal Stem cell research, and the Patriot Act as examples. When I talk to them about Fast and Furious, they tell me that this type of thing is okay because it’s for the good of the public because guns are evil and cause murders.


18 posted on 11/08/2011 5:23:38 AM PST by mbynack (Retired USAF SMSgt)
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To: Dogbert41
"We are in the middle of two-year long national election. You’d think one of these yahoos would be screaming about this AT the media 24/7. Just one of them."

Just like they "screamed" about the violation of the Constitution's Article II requirement that the President be a natural born Citizen.

Do you really think that the treasonous republicans give a flying frick about anything but their own wealth and power?

19 posted on 11/08/2011 5:24:25 AM PST by Godebert
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To: MestaMachine
Please be aware that in the final few minutes of a recent Current TV documentary about arming the Mexican Drug Cartels which mostly contained liberal talking points, there was a brief moment when journalism was accidentally committed. This came when ATF agent Robert Champion told the reporter that the Fast & Furious guns permitted to go south of the border only made up a very small percentage of the total number of guns that flowed south. The reporter then asked the obvious followup question, namely what that percentage was. An embarrassed Champion then mumbled and fumbled for an answer when another ATF agent intervened and curtly informed them that they won't give that percentage.

It was quite a moment and this show will repeat on Current TV this Friday at 7 PM EST.

20 posted on 11/08/2011 6:34:54 AM PST by PJ-Comix (Free Depends for OWS Protesters)
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