Posted on 01/30/2011 4:01:07 PM PST by Libloather
State lawmakers want Obama’s birth records
By Howard Fischer
Capitol Media Services
Sat, 01/29/2011 - 00:34
PHOENIX — More than three dozen Republican legislators want a plan to require Barack Obama to produce an original birth certificate for Arizona officials if he intends to seek re-election.
HB 2544 would forbid the secretary of state from putting a presidential candidate’s name on the ballot unless certain documents are first provided. These include a sworn statements outlining where the candidate has lived for the last 14 years, that the candidate does not hold dual citizenship and that the person’s allegiance “is solely to the United States of America.”
But what worries Ken Bennett, the current secretary of state, is that he also would have to be furnished “an original long form birth certificate that includes the date and place of birth, the names of the hospital and the attending physician and signatures of the witnesses in attendance.” Without that, he said, the measure would bar him from including the candidate’s name on the ballot.
“I don’t know that’s on MY birth certificate, for goodness sakes” said Bennett, who was born in Tucson.
Potentially more problematic, he said, is that each state has its own system of recording births. And Bennett, who is a Republican like all of the measure’s 41 sponsors, is not sure that its even possible to get an “original” birth certificate.
For example, he said, people seeking birth certificates from many states, often for passports or other documentation, are instead furnished with a “certificate of live birth.” That usually takes the form of a state official certifying, under oath, that there are documents on file proving a specific person was born on a specified date.
That’s not all, Bennett said, pointing to the requirement for the birth certificate to have the names of the attending physician and the signatures of witnesses.
“If you were delivered at home with a midwife, does that mean you are no longer qualified to be the president of the United States?” he asked. “If there aren’t any signatures of witnesses in attendance, you’re no longer qualified?”
And what, exactly, is a “long form birth certificate,” he asked.
“Is that a standard term of art that means the same thing in all 50 states?” Bennett continued. “And is it even available in all 50 states?”
Officially speaking, the legislation crafted by Rep. Judy Burges, R-Skull Valley, does not mention Obama. And Burges, who first sponsored a slightly different version of the measure last year, said it’s not necessarily about Obama, though she admitted she doubts he was born in Hawaii as he claims, or that he can show he is a U.S. citizen.
“With what’s happening throughout the world, we need to make sure that our candidates are certifiable,” she told Capitol Media Services when she introduced the first measure.
Burges managed to get the measure through the House last year. The bill died in the Senate. That requirement for the “long form original,” appears designed with Obama in mind.
Officials in Hawaii released a short-form version of the birth certificate when the issue first arose before the 2008 election. When that failed to satisfy critics, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the state’s health director, issued a statement saying he has “seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen.”
Bennett seems satisfied. “I think he was born in Hawaii,” he said. “I personally believe he is a U.S. citizen.”
Others sponsors of the legislation, though, apparently have their doubts.
Rep. Carl Seel, R-Phoenix, told KPNX this week he believes Obama — and all presidential candidates — should provide proof of their citizenship. Asked specifically if he believes Obama is a citizen, Seel responded, “I have questions about that.”
Bennett, acknowledging all the controversy, said he is sympathetic to the goal. “I think we need a legitimate and verifiable process for candidates to demonstrate that they meet the qualifications,” he said.
“In the case of the president’s office … the best place is at the federal level so that each state is not doing its own, different thing,” Bennett continued. “But it seems unfortunately obvious that they’ve not sufficiently implemented such a process at the federal level or we wouldn’t be having these questions.”
He added, though, that no process might be enough “in the minds of some people.”
I think that the questions are not being asked because the people that should be asking the questions are afraid of the media. Could you image what would happen if any politician in Washington stood up and stated that he or she thought that obama was born in Kenya? The democratic party and the media could destroy him or her in the next election. A lot of politicians are willing to sell their country out for a few pieces of silver.
If every single federal politician is afraid of the media, then “no guts, no glory.”
There are many politicians who represent such safe conservative districts that no Democrat has been elected to represent their district in a quarter century or more. What are conservatives from deep red districts afraid of?
All any federal politician need say is that she or he supports a Congressional INVESTIGATION into the question of presidential eligibility. They can say that they have no idea whether the president is eligible or not but they would just like Congress to make sure that we have an eligible president. That is the job of Congress. No one needs to come out and say that they believe that Obama was born in Kenya.
Just advocate for a harmless little bipartisan investigation (with subpoena power!)
Now once again I am no longer able to see my PINGS again. Nor my Mail, nor my Preferences. I have to put someone's name in search just to be able to communicate with someone.
I don't know what is going on but I think if it was my computer problem I would have problems with other sites.
I have NEVER joined any other site, but it looks like if I want to keep up with the worlds information I may have to. :-(
Last time I checked, Hawaii wasn't on the border.
You're actually under the delusion that you're making points, aren't you? LOL
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To: Retired Intelligence Officer
LOL. The poor quality of birther reading comprehension skills never ceases to amaze me. Rush is saying they got an imposter into the EQUIVALENT of the White House in AFGANISTATN.
22 posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2010 6:53:11 PM by curiosity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2632107/posts?page=22#22
Even if you think the COLB is fake (a proposition for which there is no evidence even for reasonable suspicion), we know his birth certificate is neither delayed nor amended.
His BC couldn't be delayed because it was filed within 4 days. We know that from the birth announcements. We also know from the birth index that it couldn't have been amended, as there is no entry in the index of any amendments.
In fact Hawaii appears to have admitted it was amended
No it has not.
Just because it is not on the southern border doesn't mean it is not a problem,
Well, the government report you cite says the problems are concentrated on the Southern border. It makes no mention of any fraud problems in Hawaii, and there is no evidence of any widespread BC fraud in Hawaii.
Hawaii made it so easy to get a BC they may not have needed to resort to mid-wife fraud.
Hawaii made it no easier than any other state at the time.
They of course are entirely a border state surrounded by oceans which makes it easy for one to land via boat on their shores with a newborn and claim birth in Hawaii.
LOL. Do you have any idea how far Hawaii is from the nearest landmass? There's a reason the CIS doesn't consider Hawaii to be a major crossing point for illegal entry into the US.
Ignorance of a seldom known immigration law and desire to have a US citizen child
LOL. So Stanely Ann and her mother know enough technical details of immigration law to know she wasn't old enough to pass on citizenship to her son should he be born in Kenya, but then at the same time she was too ignorant of immigration law to know she could get her son naturalized, legally and without having to resort to fraud.
Make up your mind. Either she was knowledgeable of the law, or she wasn't. You can't have it both ways.
Uh...you seem to be forgetting about 4,000 miles of Ocean.
You should have the chance to travel there and observe for yourself!
Speculation upon speculation is fine for a murder mystery, but in real life, and this is real, such speculations are a perversion of what must be done by duty to the Constitution and the rule of Law — to have a proceeding with the ability to subpoena, depose, compel testimony in order to get to the FACTS in this matter of highest importance.
Okay, so whom do you want to subpoena, depose, and compel to testify? What facts do you want that aren't already in the public domain?
I've been to Hawaii several times. Yes, there are some illegals there, but they certainly aren't from Japan, and few, if any, arrived in Hawaii by ship.
Illegals in Hawaii are mainly from Mexico or other Latin American countries, and they work construction. They illegally enter via the Southern border and then catch a plane to Hawaii, though they most likely spend a few years on the mainland working jobs before landing one out in Hawaii.
He’s not eligible.
Obama is not eligible. There is NOTHING that passes as “evidence” in the public domain to prove that he has a birth certificate that will prove his eligibility. There’s plenty of evidence that there is no birth certificate. Even Chris Matthews doubts there is one.
We know nothing of the sort we have not seen his real COLB
......... Even if you think the COLB is fake (a proposition for which there is no evidence even for reasonable suspicion), we know his birth certificate is neither delayed nor amended......
.....His BC couldn't be delayed because it was filed within 4 days. We know that from the birth announcements. We also know from the birth index that it couldn't have been amended, as there is no entry in the index of any amendments......
WE know nothing of any adoption records other than what was shown on his Indonesia school records and amendment could be concealed in adoption records.
Butterdezillion's blog says the Hawaii Department of Health (HDOH) has indirectly confirmed that Obama’s FactCheck.org COLB is a forgery because:
1) They have made a statutory admission that his certification of Live Birth (COLB) has been amended, which is required to be shown on a legitimate COLB, but is not shown on the FactCheck.org COLB, and
2) Director Okubao has said that Oahu birth certificate’s have always been given the birth certificate number by the HDOH on the “date filed.” The FactCheck.org COLB has a “date filed” 3 days earlier than the Nordyke twins’ but was given a number later than theirs. This statement by Okubo rules out past explanations (hospitals numbering the birth certificate’s or being given blocks of numbers, or birth certificate’s sitting in piles at the HDOH for days before being numbered). This means that either the “date filed”, certificate number, or both have been altered on the FactCheck.org COLB.
Because Obama’s genuine birth certificate is amended, Hawaii law (HRS 338-17) says that it has no legal value unless it is presented as evidence to a judicial or administrative person or body and they rule the birth certificate to be probative. Obama has fought lawsuits to make sure that his birth certificate could never be presented as evidence, even though it is the only way he can have any birth facts legally determined.
In fact Hawaii appears to have admitted it was amended
...... No it has not.
Yes it has prove it.
Just because it is not on the southern border doesn't mean it is not a problem,
......Well the government report you cite says the problems are concentrated on the Southern border. It makes no mention of any fraud problems in Hawaii, and there is no evidence of any widespread BC fraud in Hawaii.....
Not yet..but thats just one govt report.
Hawaii made it so easy to get a BC they may not have needed to resort to mid-wife fraud.
...... Hawaii made it no easier than any other state at the time...
Yes they did,
They of course are entirely a border state surrounded by oceans which makes it easy for one to land via boat on their shores with a newborn and claim birth in Hawaii.
.....LOL. Do you have any idea how far Hawaii is from the nearest landmass? There's a reason the CIS doesn't consider Hawaii to be a major crossing point for illegal entry into the US.....
Duh no its not a major crossing point but it is a destination center. Japanese, Filipinos and Mexicans are illegally in Hawaii.
Ignorance of a seldom known immigration law and desire to have a US citizen child
LOL.
.... So Stanely Ann and her mother know enough technical details of immigration law to know she wasn't old enough to pass on citizenship to her son should he be born in Kenya, but then at the same time she was too ignorant of immigration law to know she could get her son naturalized, legally and without having to resort to fraud.
Make up your mind. Either she was knowledgeable of the law, or she wasn't. You can't have it both ways.
She likely didn't know either but in any case the age and pp and residency requirements were available in chart form, the naturalization was not. She may have planned on going to Hawaii but delayed and not allowed to leave Kenya. She may have gone to Canada. We really dont know because the State Department destroyed her passport records, how did that happen, by accident? ROFLMAO.Yes I can have it both ways.
TELL ME WHY OBAMA SHOULD NOT SHOW HIS LONG FORM BC any adoption records and school records as well as explain how and when he got his Social Security Card. Keep making excuses, no one is buying it. He needs to put up or step down. He is dividing the nation over a $12.00 issue. As he himself said the only people who don't want to disclose the truth are those with something to hide. There is no logical explanation for his hiding all his records other than they contain bad news for him, His track record as a pathological liar does not help his transparency or veracity either.
That kind of feigned abject ignorance marks you as a troll.
There is no evidence he was ever adopted. And no, his registration in a PRIVATE Indonesian School doesn't say he was adopted. And no, the Soetoro divorce decree doesn't prove it, either.
Butterdezillion's blog says the Hawaii Department of Health (HDOH) has indirectly confirmed that Obama’s FactCheck.org COLB is a forgery because:
Butterdezillion's blog says a lot of things, most of which is nonsense.
1) They have made a statutory admission that his certification of Live Birth (COLB) has been amended,
I'm aware Butterdezillion claims the above. Unfortunately, she has no evidence to back up her claim, just a lot of speculation and innuendo.
2) Director Okubao has said that Oahu birth certificate’s have always been given the birth certificate number by the HDOH on the “date filed.” The FactCheck.org COLB has a “date filed” 3 days earlier than the Nordyke twins’ but was given a number later than theirs. This statement by Okubo rules out past explanations (hospitals numbering the birth certificate’s or being given blocks of numbers, or birth certificate’s sitting in piles at the HDOH for days before being numbered). This means that either the “date filed”, certificate number, or both have been altered on the FactCheck.org COLB.
Uh huh. And how, exactly, do you know that birth certificate numbering is always that precise? You're talking about a government bureaucracy here.
Because Obama’s genuine birth certificate is amended, Hawaii law (HRS 338-17)
But there's nothing to suggest it is amended.
Obama has fought lawsuits to make sure that his birth certificate could never be presented as evidence, even though it is the only way he can have any birth facts legally determined.
The lawsuits never got to the stage where it was necessary for him to submit evidence.
You: In fact Hawaii appears to have admitted it was amended
Me: No it has not.
Yes it has prove it.
Okay. There is no such admission, anywhere in the public domain. That proves it doesn't exist.
Me: Well the government report you cite says the problems are concentrated on the Southern border. It makes no mention of any fraud problems in Hawaii, and there is no evidence of any widespread BC fraud in Hawaii.....
You: Not yet..but thats just one govt report.
Okay. So do you have any evidence that there's significant amount of BC fraud in Hawaii? And no, a single fraud committed 100 years ago, before Hawaii was even a state, doesn't count.
You: Hawaii made it so easy to get a BC they may not have needed to resort to mid-wife fraud.
Me:...... Hawaii made it no easier than any other state at the time...
You:Yes they did,
Okay. Prove it.
Duh no its not a major crossing point but it is a destination center.
Not for illegal alien mothers with newborn babies.
Japanese, Filipinos and Mexicans are illegally in Hawaii.
Japanese?!!! Are you kidding?
She likely didn't know either but in any case the age and pp and residency requirements were available in chart form,
Really. A chart form. You got any evidence such a chart ever existed?
the naturalization was not.
The idea that an educated bank manager wouldn't have even inquired as the possibilities of naturalization for her grandson is too ridiculous for words.
She may have planned on going to Hawaii but delayed and not allowed to leave Kenya.
So how would a forged birth certificate have helped?
She may have gone to Canada.
Got any evidnece of that?
We really dont know because the State Department destroyed her passport records,
Her passport records would not have provided any information on her travels. Sorry to dissapoint you.
TELL ME WHY OBAMA SHOULD NOT SHOW HIS LONG FORM BC
Because it is not necessary to establish his eligibility, and by not showing it, he encourages the birther movement, which ends up dividing and embarassing the GOP. any adoption records
There is no evidence he was adopted. But even if he was, it wouldn't affect his eligibility.
and school records as well as explain how and when he got his Social Security Card
Also irrelevant to his eligibility.
He needs to put up or step down.
He will do neither, and there's nothing either you or any birther can do about it.
He is dividing the nation over a $12.00 issue.
No. He's only dividing his opposotion. His base and the independent swing voters don't care. The only people who care about this issue are people who would never vote for him in the first place. Hence he can safely ignore you.
As he himself said the only people who don't want to disclose the truth are those with something to hide. There is no logical explanation for his hiding all his records other than they contain bad news for him,
Sure there is. By hiding them, he encourages nutjobs like you to come up with wild conspiracy theories that divide and embarass his opposition.
if a couple of Republican senators were to suggest that obama be investigated, it does not mean that he would be investigated. They ‘know that the republican leadership would not allow it to proceed. All that would happen is that the media would label the senators as nutcase “birthers”
Yeah, but they aren't illegal, and they aren't committing birth certificate fraud. They have no reason to.
In 2004, following a long investigation by the FBI and Department of State, Jean Anderson, the former deputy registrar of the Hudson County, N.J., Office of Vital Statistics, pleaded guilty to taking money for falsifying county records.And of course there's the infamous case of Sun Yat Sen's Hawaiian BC.According to a Department of Justice news release, Anderson was paid to insert phony birth records for illegal aliens into the files at her county office. The immigrants, in turn, approached county window clerks and requested copies of their birth certificates, after which the clerks looked to the files and, upon seeing the records Anderson had inserted, issued fraudulent birth certificates unknowingly.
Read more: Birth certificate fraud: It's been done before http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=107200#ixzz1CpBzyZOr
LucyT after my reply back to you the other night in which I stated; “For some time I was not even able to see my Pings, but all of a sudden that cleared up.”
Now once again I am no longer able to see my PINGS again. Nor my Mail, nor my Preferences. I have to put someone’s name in search just to be able to communicate with someone.
I don’t know what is going on but I think if it was my computer problem I would have problems with other sites.
I have NEVER joined any other news site similar to FreeRepublic, but it looks like if I want to keep up with the worlds information I may have to. :-(
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