Posted on 11/12/2009 2:09:01 PM PST by American Dream 246
Democrat Bill Owens delivers his victory speech at his headquarters in Plattsburgh last week. Owens declared victory after Conservative nominee Doug Hoffman conceded the 23rd Congressional District race election night. Now recanvassing shows the special election has narrowed to a 3,000-vote difference, and will be decided by a count of absentee ballots.
The Associated PressDemocrat Bill Owens delivers his victory speech at his headquarters in Plattsburgh last week. Owens declared victory after Conservative nominee Doug Hoffman conceded the 23rd Congressional District race election night. Now recanvassing shows the special election has narrowed to a 3,000-vote difference, and will be decided by a count of absentee ballots.» Updated county-by-county NY-23 vote totals (PDF)Washington -- Conservative Doug Hoffman conceded the race in the 23rd Congressional District last week after receiving two pieces of grim news for his campaign: He was down 5,335 votes with 93 percent of the vote counted on election night, and he had barely won his stronghold in Oswego County.
As it turns out, neither was true.
But Hoffman’s concession -- based on snafus in Oswego County and elsewhere that left his vote undercounted -- set off a chain of events that echoed all the way to Washington, D.C., and helped secure passage of a historic health care reform bill.
Democratic Rep. Bill Owens was quickly sworn into office on Friday, a day before the rare weekend vote in the House of Representatives. His support sealed his party’s narrow victory on the health care legislation.
Now a recanvassing in the 11-county district shows that Owens’ lead has narrowed to 3,026 votes over Hoffman, 66,698 to 63,672, according to the latest unofficial results from the state Board of Elections.
In Oswego County, where Hoffman was reported to lead by only 500 votes with 93 percent of the vote counted election night, inspectors found Hoffman actually won by 1,748 votes -- 12,748 to 11,000.
The new vote totals mean the race will be decided by absentee ballots, of which about 10,200 were distributed, said John Conklin, communications director for the state Board of Elections.
Under a new law in New York that extended deadlines, military and overseas ballots received by this coming Monday (and postmarked by Nov. 2) will be counted. Standard absentee ballots had to be returned this past Monday.
Conklin said the state sent a letter to the House Clerk last week explaining that no winner had been determined in the 23rd District, and therefore the state had not certified the election. But the letter noted that Owens still led by about 3,000 votes, and that the special election was not contested -- two factors that legally allowed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to swear in Owens on Friday.
"We sent a letter to the clerk laying out the totals," Conklin said. "The key is that Hoffman conceded, which means the race is not contested. However, all ballots will be counted, and if the result changes, Owens will have to be removed."
Before Owens was sworn in Friday, Rep. John Garamendi, a Democrat who won a special election in California, was sworn in Thursday. The two gave Pelosi the votes she needed to reach a majority of 218 and pass the historic health care reform legislation in the House.
The bill passed 220-215 late Saturday with the support of only one Republican. The Republican, Rep. Anh "Joseph" Cao of Louisiana, said he voted for the legislation only after seeing that Democrats had the 218 votes needed for passage.
Now Hoffman, who campaigned against the health care reform bill, is carefully watching as the 23rd District race tightens and he is left to wonder if he conceded too soon.
"I don’t know if we would have conceded on election night," Rob Ryan, Hoffman’s campaign spokesman, said Wednesday while discussing the latest results of the recanvassing. "I’m someone who doesn’t like to look back. But would we have taken longer to make a decision on election night? Probably, if we knew it was only 3,000 votes making the difference."
Ryan, while acknowledging that Hoffman’s chances of pulling off a come-from-behind victory are still remote, said the campaign is looking at its legal options.
"We’re basically watching and waiting," Ryan said. "We’ve been looking very closely at the recanvass. We’re going to see how this week shapes up, and then we’re going to determine what to do."
Ryan said an important factor in the decision to concede was the unexpected -- and erroneous -- close vote in Oswego County, where polls had Hoffman with a double digit percentage point lead heading into Election Day.
"That’s the thing that threw us off," Ryan said.
Oswego County elections officials blame the mistakes on "chaos" in their call-in center that included a phone system foul-up and inspectors who read numbers incorrectly when phoning in results. Of 245 races in the county -- not including the congressional and court races -- 84 had incorrect totals reported election night.
In the congressional race, more votes were cast in Oswego County than any other in the 11-county district.
The district’s second biggest voter turnout was in Jefferson County, where Hoffman also has benefited from a turnaround since election night, gaining about 700 votes. Owens led Hoffman by 300 votes on the final election night tally. But after recanvassing, Hoffman now leads by 424 votes, 10,884 to 10,460.
Jerry Eaton, the Republican elections commissioner for Jefferson County, said inspectors found a problem in four districts where Hoffman’s vote total was mistakenly entered as zero.
"Hoffman definitely gained votes where he didn’t have them," Eaton said.
Jefferson County, home of Fort Drum and the Army's 10th Mountain Division, distributed 2,299 absentee ballots for the special election. As of this week, 1,303 had been returned but not counted, Eaton said. He said the county will begin counting the absentee ballots earyl next week.
Conklin, of the state Board of Elections, said officials did not have updated absentee ballot totals from the other counties.
When asked about the tightening race, Owens spokesman Jon Boughtin released a statement without directly addressing the election. "Since being elected, Congressman Owens has remained focused on the issues at hand: working with local leaders to address the Champlain Bridge closure, meeting with commanders at Fort Drum and continuing the work to strengthen Upstate New York," the statement said.
Ryan said the absentee ballots are likely to favor Hoffman because most were likely mailed before Republican Dede Scozzafava suspended her campaign three days before the election.
"For Doug to win, we needed a three-way race," Ryan said, adding that the campaign’s internal polls showed Hoffman would win with all three candidates.
"Given the majority of these ballots are from a three-way race, we think the ballots are going to break Doug’s way," Ryan said.
Ryan declined to say what percentage of the absentee vote the campaign believes Hoffman would need to win the race. Nevertheless, Hoffman’s campaign is optimistic.
"When people look back at this race, it was a remote possibility that Doug Hoffman would be a contender," Ryan said. "But miracles do happen.
ACORN was involved to some degree. Don’t count out crooked absentee ballots coming from that swamp.
As we post and read ballots are being created and stuffed in official ballot bags and stowed in the trunk of some Demo’s car so they can be “discovered” at the last minute to save the seat.
Where do you stand on the stimulus bill?
While most economists agree that spending is required in a recession, government bureaucrats are the worst people to be spending our money. That’s why there are no jobs with this recovery. The economy may be slowly beginning to recover but it is doing so in spite of the stimulus, not because of it. I believed at the time the stimulus passed that it was a bad bill and would not work as promised and I believe that even more so now. What I would have supported is a bill that puts real money in the hands of Americans to spend, not federal bureaucrats… and a bill that spent money on capital projects that would have put people to work now, not in the next two to three years.
Where do you stand on health care reform?
Although universal health care sounds great in theory, we can’t afford to do everything at once… especially when it means adding an additional trillion dollars to the deficit we are handing to our children and grandchildren. I believe our first step should be to bring the spiraling costs of healthcare under control so the cost of healthcare does not destroy the budgets of hardworking families and retirees. Then, as the economy picks up we can work to insure everyone.
Would you vote for higher taxes to help pay for the deficit?
President Ronald Reagan said it best: “The problem is not that people are taxed too little, the problem is that government spends too much.” Before we even consider raising taxes we must first bring spending under control.
What spending would you cut?
I would cut the pork and wasteful earmarks. When the Democrats took control of congress, they did so with the promise to end earmarks. Unfortunately, they not only did not end earmarks, they took them to a whole new level. I didn’t have to think twice. I signed the pledge to oppose pork barrel spending.”
Bill Owens: Refused to sign.
Dede Scozzafava: Refused to sign.
Read No Pork Pledge for the Council for Citizens Against Gov. Waste
Where do you stand on issues such as the war/terror/military?
It is often said, yet too often forgotten: Freedom isn’t free. The men and women of our armed forces are the true heroes in today’s world. Here in the 23rd district, we are more aware of that than most. The 10th Mountain Division is doing a super job and we understand the burden this places on them and on their families. We owe all our soldiers – and their families – a tremendous debt of gratitude and we must do everything we can to support them. The new G.I. bill is a good first step in that direction. We must continue our work to do more for them and to do everything we can to support their families when they are deployed… … We are past the point of pointing fingers over how we got to where we are in Iraq and Afghanistan. The question for us now is where do we go from here? I believe we must continue to try and turn the security and governing of Iraq over to the Iraqis. I also believe we need to continue to go after the terrorist strongholds and training bases wherever they are located. The war against terror is not over and the terrorists’ goal remains the destruction of the United States and our way of life… We must never forget this fact.
Where do you stand on illegal immigration?
There is no question that our immigration policies are flawed. The answer, though, is not to put up a wall and stop all immigration. The answer is to create an easier path for immigrants to enter the United States – and to work here – while at the same time getting tough on illegal immigrants who commit crimes.
Where do you stand on the issue of Roe vs. Wade?
I am pro-life, period.
Where do you stand on the issue of Same Sex Marriage?
I was brought up to believe marriage is between a man and a woman. That’s how I feel. I don’t want to persecute anyone but that’s what I believe. Marriage ought to stay marriage. Period.”
Dede Scozzafava: In Albany Assemblywoman Scozzafava voted for gay-marriage twice. Bill #’s A 8590 (6-19-07) and A 7732 (5-12-09).
Where do you stand on the Second Amendment?
As an NRA member, Doug believes the Second Amendment is far more vital to our nation than just protecting the recreational activities of hunters and target shooters. The Founding Fathers thought these right’s so vital to a free country that they specifically created the Bill of Rights. They did not want to leave any doubt as to what tools must be available to the lone citizen.
• The first amendment’s protection of the ability to question government and assuring the capacity of citizens to communicate to one another.
• The fifth amendment’s designation of property rights as the clear demarcation line between the individual and the community.
• The fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh’s establishing the due process by which the judiciary and law enforcement officers must adhere to in applying the law to individuals.
But the second amendment was included to give bite to the other protections outlined in the Bill of Rights. Without it, all other amendments are nothing more than talk.
Doug Hoffman believes citizens in all states plus the District of Columbia should have a “Right to Carry” with a CCW permits, a right that is now enjoyed in over 38 states.
Doug Hoffman opposes any federal ban or registration on the types and cosmetics of rifles that law-abiding American citizens can own.
Where do you stand on Cap and Trade?
It’s a terrible bill and an example of more government regulations killing businesses and job growth. It will also result in higher energy costs.
What type of tax reform do you support?
I believe that a flat tax would be fairer and simpler. It would be low cost and would be a great boost to our economy. I also signed the Americans for Tax Reform, Anti-Tax Pledge.
Doug Hoffman has signed the 912 Candidates Pledge
How do you feel about No Tax Pledges?
Tax increases are the last thing we need. I signed the ‘No New Taxes’ pledge.”
Bill Owens: Refused to sign.
Dede Scozzafava: Refused to sign and called asking candidates to pledge not to raise taxes ‘a stunt.’
Click here to view our Anti-Tax Pledge.
Where do you stand on the $180 Million Bank Bailout?
I opposed Albany’s bank bailout for the same reason I opposed the Nancy Pelosi’s ‘Stimulus Bill.’ The economy may be slowly beginning to recover but it is doing so in spite of bailouts and stimulus bills, not because of them. I believed at the time the stimulus passed that it was a bad bill and would not work as promised and I believe that even more so now.
Dede Scozzafava: Voted for the $180 mortgage bank bailout bill in Albany.
What do you think should be done regarding ACORN?
This is simple. I support defunding ACORN 100%. The whole thing is a political boondoggle to elect Democrats and a waste of taxpayers money.
Dede Scozzafava: Was endorsed by the so-called ‘Working Families Party’ — ACORN’S Party — and ran on their ballot line in the last election. During the latest scandal, despite being challenged in the press she refused to denounce ACORN and their ally, the Working Families Party.
It means that this is a mess. We are, to some degree, in uncharted water. Conklin, who I believe represents the state or county election board, may be wishfully thinking. He can't force Pelosi to do anything.
It would put Pelosi in an unusual position of ignoring a state election official (who is presumably a Democrat himself), and allowing Owens to keep his seat. But, there's no judicial remedy here, even if the election board or Hoffman would sue, there's more than a reasonable chance that the judiciary wouldn't hear the case. If they did, they would be carving out new judicial authority, something that really doesn't happen all that often.
Like I said, it's a mess. If Hoffman would have contested the election, then Pelosi wouldn't have been able to seat Owens, and this could have and would have been decided in the courts.
Thursday, November 12, 2009 11:21:25 AM · 42 of 113 zimfam007 to McGruff; All; admin Check this out: http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/11/its_not_over_recanvassing_shows_ny23_race.html If it is breaking news worthy please put in....not sure if it has already been posted today....
What is Pelosi required to accept? If you don’t actually have to win the seat, how do you get to be a Congress critter?
Very interesting. Thank you.
Even if so, since it passed by two votes, it won’t change the outcome.
You need to read further in the article...since the election results have not been certified Owens is not the winner regardless of Hoffman conceding or not...it would not take ANYTHING for Owens to be kicked out and Hoffman to be in b/c the results have not been certified therefore there is NO WINNER as of yet the only reason why Owens was allowed to be certified is b/c at the time of concession he was ~3000 votes ahead....but he is NOT the winner. In fact Bret Baier is doing a bit on it right now on FOX...
I'm having this exact same discussion with someone else on another thread. Yes, Owens can ABSOLUTELY be removed, by the House. But, with my limited understanding of House parliamentary procedure, I'm not sure how it works, precisely
Does it come to a vote where he is expelled by the other House members after a challenge on the House floor? Is there a mechanism that would demand that he remove himself? I just don't know.
What I have said, however, that given this Speaker and the makeup of the House, I wouldn't not be encouraged if the process required a House floor vote. Sure it might be political suicide for the Dems not to remove Owens, but that doesn't seem to be stopping them on health care either.
I agree—
or at least he could have delayed conceding :(
Wow, seems those Rinos in New York and the RNC really screwed things up, and his campaign staff only added to the mess.
So the list grows of those we have to thank for socialist health care passage in the house?
Hoffman wanted to spend stimulus money even faster than Obama.
CINO
Although universal health care sounds great in theory, we can’t afford to do everything at once…
Socialism on the installment plan. And Hoffman did an Orwell on his original statement, which said, "There is no doubt that universal health care is a worthy objective."
CINO
I would cut the pork and wasteful earmarks.
Not earmarks, just "wasteful" earmarks. That's the same euphemism Obama uses.
"On the campaign trail, Mr. Hoffman has decried unchecked spending, bloated governments and mounting deficits that create higher taxes. But he said he'd support a government bailout if there were an agency under the same set of circumstances today."
http://watertowndailytimes.com/article/20090906/NEWS03/309069971
CINO
There is no question that our immigration policies are flawed. The answer, though, is not to put up a wall and stop all immigration. The answer is to create an easier path for immigrants to enter the United States – and to work here – while at the same time getting tough on illegal immigrants who commit crimes.
Hoffman is channeling Ted Kennedy. Make it easier to get in? No wall?
And in case you and Hoffman didn't realize it, just being here illegally is a crime.
CINO
RINO establishment mentality is what handed the seat to the Democrat. It's been doing so for quite awhile now, which is why so many of us now REFUSE to vote anymore for liberal Republicans -- all they do is make Democrat big government liberalism stronger. To vote for a liberal Republican just to keep the seat away from a liberal Democrat is engaging in Einstein's definition of insanity. Some of us have finally figured it out.
Mercy me! Mess may be an understatement.
And Hoffman went up in the polls. His groupies were cheering his inevitable victory the last couple of days before the election.
Oh, please, Hoffman would be better than anything else they’re running up there, and at least it would be possible to work with him. Voting Dem or RINO, your positions obviously, would give us somebody who would be totally deaf on any of these subjects.
Of course, then I think back on how the anti-immigration lobby here on FR destroyed a lot of conservative candidates who weren’t perfectly in line with their anti-Mexican obssession - and landed us with McCain, selected by the RNC that didn’t care one way or the other and simply felt that John deserved his turn.
Learn to work with people who at least agree on major principles - and I think Hoffman does, although I’m not 100% in agreement, either - or you’ll end up part of the circular firing squad that has left us with nothing but loser RINO candidates.
What? Are you calling me a democrat because I went to law school and understand how the law works? That's the maturity one might find over at DU. Not very becoming.
There were several candidate that went before the selection committee. Hoffman was dead last, with no votes from anybody on any of the ballots.
And he didn't even live in the district.
Excellent point, much needs to be done to ensure future election’s are done fairly and legally.
We need ACORN and the like to be far removed from these practices.
Of course congress may give them back what they took in October. Sigh, one step forward 50 steps back.
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