How Can Glenn Beck Be Right on So Much and Yet Still Believe the book of Mormon? (serious question)

501 posted on 10/27/2009 2:49:12 AM PDT by oprahstheantichrist (The MSM is a demonic stronghold, PLEASE pray accordingly - 2 Corinthians 10:3-5)

The digest version of your post more clearly illustrates your contradictory statements:

Glenn Beck does a great job on TV saying what any Conservative is saying in these oBama times. Beck is not believable.

Now, let's examine the quote on your profile page by Helen Keller, activist member of the Socialist Party, and Communist sympathizer:

"Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."- Helen Keller

Of all the quotes in the world, you chose the penned thoughts of a committed socialist to reflect your persona. Is it conceivable you didn't realize your quote reflects socialism? NoRedTape's foundation is suspect; it is cracked from the socialist cult. And that is very sad.

Sorry man, that doesn't make sense with ANY approach of attempted justification in a conservative forum.

Here's another nifty quote you can add to your profile. It fits squarely with your other socialist quote:

It takes a village to raise a child. - Hillary Clinton

502 posted on 10/27/2009 4:41:22 AM PDT by NautiNurse (Obama: A day without TOTUS is like a day without sunshine)

Elsie, I would respectfully request that you not post to me.

Sorry; but if you post something that I wish to comment on; I will.

There is too much false information coming from LDS, Inc. to let it slide.

If you wish to defend the Organization® with some facts; go right ahead.

You're a big hit w/ the anti cabal, but I think you can see, you kind of grate on the rest.

I'll 'translate' this as:

"You are good with your Biblical and MORMON quotes; but it upsets the MORMONs for we cannot counter what our Leaders have written."

503 posted on 10/27/2009 4:59:49 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

Your behavior is tyrranical and belligerent like a czar.

I just HATE it when folks act this way!!

THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI
HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 14

An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The apostle John shall write concerning the end of the world. Between 600 and 592 B.C.

1 And it shall come to pass, that if the Gentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word, and also in power, in very deed, unto the taking away of their stumbling blocks—
2 And harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, they shall be numbered among the seed of thy father; yea, they shall be numbered among the house of Israel; and they shall be a blessed people upon the promised land forever; they shall be no more brought down into captivity; and the house of Israel shall no more be confounded.
3 And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end.
4 For behold, this is according to the captivity of the devil, and also according to the justice of God, upon all those who will work wickedness and abomination before him.
5 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, Nephi, saying: Thou hast beheld that if the Gentiles repent it shall be well with them; and thou also knowest concerning the covenants of the Lord unto the house of Israel; and thou also hast heard that whoso repented not must perish.
6 Therefore, woe be unto the Gentiles if it so be that they harden their hearts against the Lamb of God.
7 For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and a marvelous work among the children of men; a work which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or on the other—either to the convincing of them unto peace and life eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds unto their being brought down into captivity, and also into destruction, both temporally and spiritually, according to the captivity of the devil, of which I have spoken.
8 And it came to pass that when the angel had spoken these words, he said unto me: Rememberest thou the covenants of the Father unto the house of Israel? I said unto him, Yea.
9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.
11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over ball the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.
12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon ball the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.
13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.
14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory.
15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.
16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—
17 And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.
18 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!
19 And I looked and beheld a man, and he was dressed in a white robe.
20 And the angel said unto me: Behold one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
21 Behold, he shall see and write the remainder of these things; yea, and also many things which have been.
22 And he shall also write concerning the end of the world.
23 Wherefore, the things which he shall write are just and true; and behold they are written in the book which thou beheld proceeding out of the mouth of the Jew; and at the time they proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, or, at the time the book proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, the things which were written were plain and pure, and most precious and easy to the understanding of all men.
24 And behold, the things which this apostle of the Lamb shall write are many things which thou hast seen; and behold, the remainder shalt thou see.
25 But the things which thou shalt see hereafter thou shalt not write; for the Lord God hath ordained the apostle of the Lamb of God that he should write them.
26 And also others who have been, to them hath he shown all things, and they have written them; and they are sealed up to come forth in their purity, according to the truth which is in the Lamb, in the own due time of the Lord, unto the house of Israel.
27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was john, according to the word of the angel.
28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.
29 And I bear record that I saw the things which my father saw, and the angel of the Lord did make them known unto me.
30 And now I make an end of speaking concerning the things which I saw while I was carried away in the spirit; and if all the things which I saw are not written, the things which I have written are true. And thus it is. Amen.

504 posted on 10/27/2009 5:01:31 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

Your behavior is tyrranical and belligerent like a czar.

And if a czar married a czarina, I guess the kids would be called czardines.

505 posted on 10/27/2009 5:02:14 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

Just do it in the proper forum.

Don't you just HATE it when folks will not do your bidding?

506 posted on 10/27/2009 5:03:07 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

I’ve always felt that Elsie was a parody poster...weird cut and paste jobs, non-sequiturs, and the like...someone with an odd sense of humor or someone who just likes to make conservatives look bad...definitely clown filter material...magritte

You guys are starting to gang up on me - I'll have to have a good cry.

507 posted on 10/27/2009 5:03:59 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

That’s an interesting observation. I’ve seen similar behavior in the clinical setting, often resulting in a psych consult.

As a patient or doctor?

508 posted on 10/27/2009 5:04:34 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

Hahaha... “THEY” were looking for a church... yea, ok.

Glen said it; not me.

509 posted on 10/27/2009 5:06:30 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

To: Tax Government

One should not judge the body of Mormons who exist today by the writings of their religion's founders.

Oh; believe me - I don't!

What they get judged on is the FACT that there are NO new 'writings' to trump the old ones.

I can let Liberals slide when the want to call the Constitution a Living Document, but I have a REAL hard time when 'conservatives' treat their SCRIPTUREs as the same!

510 posted on 10/27/2009 5:09:12 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

To: oprahstheantichrist

Thank the countless and nameless people who have DIED bringing these very words to us over the centuries.

511 posted on 10/27/2009 5:11:11 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

I am not the one citing this account (Joseph Smith History 1:18-20), you started that (as far as I am aware) on this thread, nor am I the one now changing the subject by referring to other accounts.

I'm a huge Beck fan, in fact I'm listening right now here

http://www.ksfa860.com/common/gap_streamer.php

but something really confuses me. It takes the ability to use real critical thinking to know what Beck (and most of us know about the state of the country and where we are heading). That is, we have the ability to discover the truth no matter how much the media or conventional wisdom try to hide it. Yet on Mormonism, Beck is cleary wrong. Any Christian knows that the book or momonism is severely flawed and that Joseph Smith was no prophet. How can Beck cut through all the chaff of what is going on in our world and come to the truth and yet believe the writings of Joseph Smith? It doesn't make sense? I'm not saying he's up to something secret, not by any means, it's just that he's so right about so many things and completely wrong on the most important thing. Now, he just said on the air that he believes Jesus is the Savior of the world and that he is Mormon.

I also think that because he is Mormon he is not attacked near as much if he was a Evangelical Bible only believer. Anyway, am I nutz or does Beck being a Mormon seem bizarre?

Which part of MORMONism is off-limits in this thread?

512 posted on 10/27/2009 5:17:27 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

To: Joachim; restornu

In your additional quotation from Joseph Smith using "professors of Christianity," it would seem the horse story is just a convenient object lesson, and the term "professors of Christianity" could be intended either way--to refer to teachers or leaders only, or to believers as a whole.

...horse story... ?

HORSE STORY??

ALL of MORMONism is BUILT on the assertion that ALL of CHRISTIANITY is flawed - esPECIALLY PRESBYTERIANism!

(Just ask RESTORNU)

513 posted on 10/27/2009 5:27:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

As a counter example, mormons even believe that there were before and at the time of Smith (and presumably now also) at least some "humble followers of Christ" who are not "mormons". That was all I was saying, and now I've said it again...the former people of God] have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men. (2 Nephi 28:14) So according to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, almost all had gone astray, that is, "professors of Christianity" (believers, for the sake of this discussion) "generally" had gone astray, "except for a few, who are the humble followers of Christ."

Alright, I know it's Halloween week -- but could we please stop with the Lds masquerade you're putting up here to try to soften what Mormon "revelation" reveals? As you mentioned, this is the second post where you've cited 2 Nephi 28:14 to try to elevate the notion that Mormons supposedly recognize "a few...humble followers of Christ."

No one's going to catch you in this deception unless they have a copy of the Book of Mormon and note that Lds say that 2 Nephi 28:14 was supposedly written between 559 and 545 B.C.!!! -- or almost 600 years before Christ even was born!!!

(Of course, non-Mormons would then ask, "Joachim, ya wanna explain how only a few followers of Christ remained when he hadn't even been born as a Bethlehem baby til almost 600 years later?" But aside from that hard-to-swallow tale, all your quoting of 2 Nephi 28:14--even in its proper Mormon "historical" context means -- is that Lds will concede that not all of Christ's followers had apostacized as of 5-6 centuries BEFORE Christ was born! That's it!)

BYU prof Kent Jackson, in his Lds Ensign article on the so-called complete Christian apostasy, writes: By a.d. 95 only John remained, as far as we know...The apostasy did not happen because the Apostles were gone; the Apostles were taken because the apostasy had occurred. EarlySignsOfTheApostasy

Will you be forthright with lurkers and myself and concede that 2 Nephi 28:14 doesn't even address the time period of the post-resurrection Christ or the church He established among His disciples? (Please, please, please, in the name of intellectual integrity, drop this wrestling-out-of-historical context)

My previous post:: Again, what's Smith['s] broader view of Christian people? When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Your response: You see this as "Smith's broader view of Christian people." Mormons would see it as Smith's view of the authority of Christian leaders after the time of the apostles to receive revelation, teach doctrine and perform ordinances such as baptism.

I guess I had to chuckle at the lengths you're proceeding to avoid the obvious. I mean just look how you've...
...redefined a clear Joseph Smith reference to "everybody" (ToPJS, p. 119 quote above)...
...& then conveniently narrowed the scope to "Smith's view of the authority of Christian LEADERS" just to make this all nice & tidy with your pre-existing assumptions about Joseph Smith v. 19.

So let me try this again, this time with a multiple-choice test, just to see if you're going to stick to your story:
When Joseph Smith answered 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." to the Q, 'Will EVERYBODY be damned, but Mormons'?, Smith really was referencing "EVERYBODY" as...
Choice A Christian LEADERS only
Choice B Everybody
Choice C Readers are simply free to "agree or disagree as they will" and insert anything they want to replace the meaning of "Everybody" according to their theological whims

The "professors" here who are "corrupt" are not generic christian believers, they are those that "teach . . . doctrine" as the quoted text goes, or, as mormons understand it, persons who claim to speak for God but without authority. Mormons do not understand this scripture to say that all Christian believers are (or were) corrupt. You don't need a specific special meaning of "professors" to understand this--just look at it in context--"professors" in this case teach doctrine--they are not the same as all Christian believers.

OK, so that we don't just go round and round on this one -- what vv. 18-19 says, and so that we really try to understand each other, let's try to weave both of our emphases into a merged interpretive summary:

Can we agree then that...
(1)...v. 18 twice references which SECT to join (which embodies ALL professing believers making up that sect)?
(2)...v. 19 specifically references what that sect teaches -- "they teach for doctrines the commandments of men"?

Even if I was to try on for size your point that Smith was primarily focusing on the teachers within these sects, who would that have included in 1820?
(a) Christian missionaries;
(b) Christian pastors;
(c) Christian writers;
(d) Christian administrative leaders;
(e) Christian evangelists like John Wesley;
(f) Christian hymn writers like John's brother, Charles, who died in 1788 [in fact, Lds hymnals include Charles Wesley's "Rejoice, the Lord is King" hymn (#66) as well as Martin Luther's "A Mighty Fortress" (#68)...and, 190 of the 358 Lds hymns in their book were written by non-Lds folks!]
(g) Christian teachers of children & adults -- which, frankly, as Lds & Christian home schoolers & Lds family home evening teachers show, includes even parents!

So, you're telling me, that...
...contemporary Mormons who realize that 2 Nephi 28:14 didn't apply to Christ's A.D. church...
...take Joseph Smith vv. 18-20 to mean that...
...the "corrupt professing believers" Smith mentioned...
...were "ALL" of the Protestant/Catholic/Orthodox missionaries, pastors, writers, administrators, evangelists, hymn writers, and teachers of children & adults within their denominational sects???

Wow! What a "relief!" Here I "thought" Smith was condemning ALL Christians as "corrupt." Instead, you're telling me, "Nope, the 'only' 'corrupt' ones were..."
...the hymn writers we incorporated into 53% of our hymnal book,
all your pastors,
all your missionaries,
all your evangelists,
all your writers,
all your teachers (broadly speaking),
and all your administrators.

(And this is all on top of us agreeing that Smith says ALL Christians embraced a track record of 100% false creeds)

What a "relief" Joachim. You've at least communicated well on the last excerpt I cited of yours -- but not really picked up much reassuring ground to the Christian community about Lds' portrayal of "tolerance" toward their Christian neighbors.

And, as it applies to this thread, my comment is: So Glenn Beck believes this about much of his audience -- what I just elaborated upon since it's both the founding Lds vision & it's Lds "scripture" to boot?

514 posted on 10/27/2009 5:33:44 AM PDT by Colofornian

It is through the LDS faith that many of us have learn to discern and see clearly what is going on in the world today.

It just shows how little many critics really know about The (True) Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the War in Heaven which is carried on today!

Stand Up For Freedom by Ezra Taft Benson
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3267931195706081875#

516 posted on 10/27/2009 6:24:07 AM PDT by restornu (A humble people of the Lord is stronger than the all wicked warriors of the World)

"Anyway, am I nutz or does Beck being a Mormon seem bizarre?"

Of course it's bizarre. But no more bizarre than anyone else being a Mormon.

However, looking from outside, ANY religion looks bizarre. Including whichever one you subscribe to.

517 posted on 10/27/2009 6:27:16 AM PDT by mlo

Liberals are trying to build a tyrannical government using their living document. Mormons do nothing of the kind. The comparison ends there. Let it drop; let them be.

518 posted on 10/27/2009 6:47:37 AM PDT by Tax Government (Mighty nuts from tiny Acorns grow.)

519 posted on 10/27/2009 7:05:48 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion

To: Scythian; Dan(9698)

You need to get out more that flick is out dated now....

LOL

520 posted on 10/27/2009 7:36:21 AM PDT by restornu (A humble people of the Lord is stronger than the all wicked warriors of the World)

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