Posted on 10/26/2009 7:51:02 AM PDT by Scythian
I'm a huge Beck fan, in fact I'm listening right now here
http://www.ksfa860.com/common/gap_streamer.php
but something really confuses me. It takes the ability to use real critical thinking to know what Beck (and most of us know about the state of the country and where we are heading). That is, we have the ability to discover the truth no matter how much the media or conventional wisdom try to hide it. Yet on Mormonism, Beck is cleary wrong. Any Christian knows that the book or momonism is severely flawed and that Joseph Smith was no prophet. How can Beck cut through all the chaff of what is going on in our world and come to the truth and yet believe the writings of Joseph Smith? It doesn't make sense? I'm not saying he's up to something secret, not by any means, it's just that he's so right about so many things and completely wrong on the most important thing. Now, he just said on the air that he believes Jesus is the Savior of the world and that he is Mormon.
I also think that because he is Mormon he is not attacked near as much if he was a Evangelical Bible only believer. Anyway, am I nutz or does Beck being a Mormon seem bizarre?
Sorry. I got the wrong impression from your home page. I assumed (silly me) that just because you were defending the Mormons so much there; that you were one.
Show me ONE instance on this thread where I've evangelized; and show me ONE thing that I've said that offended a MORMON.
Odd, I thought I had posed that question to the poster, Scythian. I would imagine he is quite able to answer for himself.
Yes. Umm... OK.
No offense. I'm sure you think you're doing the Lord's work, & actually you are, you have no idea the people you steer our way, but I would rather not participate in your circus.
Given your history, I feel confident that my request will fall on deaf ears, but I thought I would make the attempt.
Does this mean you really aren't God's ordained U.S. Religion Czar? Your behavior is tyrranical and belligerent like a czar.
Your thread spamming resembles the behavior of a drunk as you hammered out three back-to-back posts (#470, 471, and 472) addressed to me. Difficulty completing thoughts is a sign of organic brain syndrome and other personality disorders. Your obsession with using ALL CAPS to emphasize odd words is just bizarre.
In summary, Glenn Beck is a much more effective communicator for conservative ideals than you are. Say good night, Lucy. Your brain needs a rest.
Every word you’ve said to me is that of a retard. So it’s probably better you stick to pretending you know how to properly quote scripture. Just do it in the proper forum.
Deal my FRiend!
I’ve always felt that Elsie was a parody poster...weird cut and paste jobs, non-sequiturs, and the like...someone with an odd sense of humor or someone who just likes to make conservatives look bad...definitely clown filter material...magritte
That’s an interesting observation. I’ve seen similar behavior in the clinical setting, often resulting in a psych consult.
LOL. Good one.
Serious question my a**. It is an irrelevant question, not to mention stupid. Beck doesn't run shows on religion he runs them on politics. What he believes politically is what counts, not what brand of Christianity he follows as long as he follows conservative principles.
I am not the one citing this account (Joseph Smith History 1:18-20), you started that (as far as I am aware) on this thread, nor am I the one now changing the subject by referring to other accounts. I was just using actual quotation of the account you cited to point out that mormons do not understand this account--their "scripture" here--the way you say they do. The "professors" here who are "corrupt" are not generic christian believers, they are those that "teach . . . doctrine" as the quoted text goes, or, as mormons understand it, persons who claim to speak for God but without authority. Mormons do not understand this scripture to say that all Christian believers are (or were) corrupt. You don't need a specific special meaning of "professors" to understand this--just look at it in context--"professors" in this case teach doctrine--they are not the same as all Christian believers.
In your additional quotation from Joseph Smith using "professors of Christianity," it would seem the horse story is just a convenient object lesson, and the term "professors of Christianity" could be intended either way--to refer to teachers or leaders only, or to believers as a whole. Assuming for purposes of discussion that the term is used for believers as a whole, the quotation is still consistent with how mormons understand the state of the churches and of people generally in the time after the apostles and before Joseph Smith. According to your quotation, Smith said: What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world. According to the Book of Mormon, as I quoted before, as of the time immediately before Joseph Smith: . . . [the former people of God] have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men. (2 Nephi 28:14) So according to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, almost all had gone astray, that is, "professors of Christianity" (believers, for the sake of this discussion) "generally" had gone astray, "except for a few, who are the humble followers of Christ."
As I said, I am just pointing out that mormons do not believe that members of various Christian denominations, past or present, are themselves corrupt or abominable, as you claimed. As a counter example, mormons even believe that there were before and at the time of Smith (and presumably now also) at least some "humble followers of Christ" who are not "mormons". That was all I was saying, and now I've said it again.
Again, what's Smith broader view of Christian people? When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119). You see this as "Smith's broader view of Christian people." Mormons would see it as Smith's view of the authority of Christian leaders after the time of the apostles to receive revelation, teach doctrine and perform ordinances such as baptism.
Your real argument seems to be (1) mormons believe what I say they do (or they ought to and they would if they would just read the sources I use and give them the proper interpretation and weight, as I do); (2) what I way they believe is ridiculous and intolerant on its face; (3) so everyone here should call them on it.
I am just disagreeing with number (1) here. Others can agree or disagree as they will.
I am not the one citing this account (Joseph Smith History 1:18-20), you started that (as far as I am aware) on this thread, nor am I the one now changing the subject by referring to other accounts. I was just using actual quotation of the account you cited to point out that mormons do not understand this account--their "scripture" here--the way you say they do. The "professors" here who are "corrupt" are not generic christian believers, they are those that "teach . . . doctrine" as the quoted text goes, or, as mormons understand it, persons who claim to speak for God but without authority. Mormons do not understand this scripture to say that all Christian believers are (or were) corrupt. You don't need a specific special meaning of "professors" to understand this--just look at it in context--"professors" in this case teach doctrine--they are not the same as all Christian believers.
In your additional quotation from Joseph Smith using "professors of Christianity," it would seem the horse story is just a convenient object lesson, and the term "professors of Christianity" could be intended either way--to refer to teachers or leaders only, or to believers as a whole. Assuming for purposes of discussion that the term is used for believers as a whole, the quotation is still consistent with how mormons understand the state of the churches and of people generally in the time after the apostles and before Joseph Smith. According to your quotation, Smith said: What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world. According to the Book of Mormon, as I quoted before, as of the time immediately before Joseph Smith: . . . [the former people of God] have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men. (2 Nephi 28:14) So according to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, almost all had gone astray, that is, "professors of Christianity" (believers, for the sake of this discussion) "generally" had gone astray, "except for a few, who are the humble followers of Christ."
As I said, I am just pointing out that mormons do not believe that members of various Christian denominations, past or present, are themselves corrupt or abominable, as you claimed. As a counter example, mormons even believe that there were before and at the time of Smith (and presumably now also) at least some "humble followers of Christ" who are not "mormons". That was all I was saying, and now I've said it again.
Again, what's Smith broader view of Christian people? When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119). You see this as "Smith's broader view of Christian people." Mormons would see it as Smith's view of the authority of Christian leaders after the time of the apostles to receive revelation, teach doctrine and perform ordinances such as baptism.
Your real argument seems to be (1) mormons believe what I say they do (or they ought to and they would if they would just read the sources I use and give them the proper interpretation and weight, as I do); (2) what I way they believe is ridiculous and intolerant on its face; (3) so everyone here should call them on it.
I am just disagreeing with number (1) here. Others can agree or disagree as they will.
(Sorry for the double post—I LOVE Vista!)
Hahaha... “THEY” were looking for a church... yea, ok. Been married more than long enough to know when “WE” are looking for something, that’s just code for in the end I’m going to buy whatever “SHE” wants.
I can be happy, or right.. its easier if she’s happy.
Glenn Beck is a showman and he does a great job on TV saying what any Conservative is saying in these oBama times.
However, Beck's foundation is suspect; it is cracked from the mormon cult. And that is very sad.
Jesus founded the Catholic Church and Beck leaves the Church for Joe's Myth? Sorry man, that doesn't make sense with ANY approach of attempted justification.
Beck is not believable knowing that he's a mormon, because the mormon beliefs are wildly unBelievable.
I watch Sean Hannity and read the news posts here.
I think those hostile emotions will burn out quicker, if I don't try to fan them.
But consider this. One should not judge the body of Mormons who exist today by the writings of their religion's founders. Mormonism today is as much or more a social community than it is a spiritual body.
There is not likely to be a single guiltless religion, if one begins to count scriptures that condone or recount racial preferences and bloodletting in the name of God. The Bible, the Koran, and at least the Mormon writings you quoted describe unsavory human actions and attitudes.
So who is the guiltless party? I don't know. But individual Mormons don't deserve to be singled out. Not unless you personally are prepared to be singled out for your social and religious affiliation, because of something that was done by members or founders of your own religion in the past.
What I said about faith-held ideas not being subject to confirmation by reason still stands. It is, after all, a very Christian notion.
My previous message to you (499) was sent in error. I retract it; my apologies.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.