BREAKING: Eight U.S. troops die in attacks in Afghanistan

MSNBC.com ^ | 10-04-09 | NBC News

[montag813]

Eight American soldiers and two Afghans have been killed in an attack on two outposts in remote eastern Afghanistan, the U.S. military said on Sunday.

A tribal militia launched the attack from a mosque and a nearby village in Nuristan, one of the most dangerous regions of Afghanistan, the U.S. military said in a statement. The Americans and Afghans repelled the attack and "inflicted heavy enemy casualties," the statement said.

In the U.S. statement, Col. Randy George described it as "a complex attack in a difficult area." The Taliban claimed responsibility.

[montag813]

THESE are McChrystal’s orders, not obama’s.

Hey noob, who gives Generals their orders?

not allowing airstrikes if civilians might be around; sending convoys out without clearing civilians from the roadsides which makes them subject to attacks from within crowds of civilians; ordering convoys carrying troops and supplies to maintain slow speeds on the roadways so the “people” will trust us more.

I guess you somehow missed Obama's campaign statements on how we need to change the ROE so "we're not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there"." All these changes making our troops less safe is coming right from the top.

[SE Mom]

If we want Afghan as an outpost first you need to establish your will, not create ROEs that are easily taken advantage of.

Indeed. As an armchair general- part of my problem with the way Iraq was fought early on was my belief we had it backwards. FIRST- you kill the enemy without hesitation. When you have their attention, then you can begin with hearts and minds. I don't believe it's possible to do both at once.

[verity]

Given the extreme political divide regarding Afghanistan, it seems to me that the Messiah has encountered a [political] lose-lose situation.

Your thoughts?

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“Firstly, I don’t think you can blame this on the President.”

We will. 8 years of “Bush’s fault.” Bush is being blamed for Chicago losing the Olympics!

“It’s not like he wants this to happen.”

I’m not so sure. Does Obama strike you as a man interested in either supporting the US military or US interests abroad?

“Plenty of troops were killed when Bush was in office, way more than under Obama.”

In Afghanistan?

“I suspect if Obama had his druthers and could do what he felt like, he’d withdraw all troops from Iraq and Afghanistan immediately, but that’s just not politically feasible.”

And that’s the problem. He would cut and run. What he should do is back our military so that we win as much of an outright victory as possible. And Obama doesn’t just NOT see that in the cards. He doesn’t want that.

“Thoughts and prayers should be with the troops and not on blaming someone.”

8 years of “Bush’s fault.”

[Monkey Face]

Don’t make me get ugly with the Arabian in the Whitey House.

He’s not MY president!!

[montag813]

McChrystal actually does seem to care about his troops and it’s hard for me to imagine that out of the clear blue, he would just decide on ROE that he had to know would result in more of them getting killed.

Obama changed the ROE. He told us he would do exactly that, so we would no longer be--in his words--"just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there".

How soon people forget.

[servantboy777]

I vote we get the hell outta there.

Either we go in FULL force or we get out.

There is no shame in leaving if our troops are being led by a freakin coward.

Why risk the lives of these brave men and women.

Besides, this is a wasteland. Afghanistan has little in the way of resources...besides opium.

The Russians are loving this. We facilitated their loss in this region, now the Russians are funneling a lil payback toward the U.S. in the way of explosives and weapons.

We have the ability (militarily) to strike any target we please without putting boots on the ground.

Either all in or all out....that's my vote.

Damn, I can't stand liberal leadership. Buncha yellow bellied tree huggin, commie supportin traitors.

[SE Mom]

Remember awhile back when it was decided to replace CIA and Defense Intel people with (God help us) FBI agents in Afghanistan? To read em their rights and so forth. It seems clear this is part of a larger effort to criminalize war- ala Clinton- bring it under the DoJ and slowly remove it from CIA and DoD. At least that’s the way it appears to me- though I may be missing some pieces.

This policy shift shows us a classic liberal view. The enemy is not an enemy- it is a criminal.

[PhiKapMom]

I would too! Nancy Grace is the ONLY person I watch on CNN for any reason. She really cares about the military and their families and the missing children.

[PhiKapMom]

That is the truth — like your graphic!

[livius]

This policy shift shows us a classic liberal view. The enemy is not an enemy- it is a criminal.

Yes, it was definitely part of a policy shift. I suppose then that it must originate with the CIC (it actually makes me feel queasy to use that abbreviation about Obama).

[PhiKapMom]

NO airstrikes near “civilian” populations. “Innocent” civilians might get hurt. Haven’t you heard?

Can you imagine being on the ground, taking a lot of enemy fire, and when you call for air support, there is none? The military should NEVER have signed off on Obama's Rules of Engagement (ROE) as he hasn't a clue. The Afghan civilians half the time are helping the Taliban which is what happened in this case. I guess Obama would rather see our troops be killed then the Muslims. If that is not the case, then he needs to withdraw his ROE's and let our troops fight the war not be sitting ducks!

[PhiKapMom]

This was the wrong picture for their White House Photo-op because it looks like he is lecturing and refusing to look at General McChyrstal.

[penelopesire]

This is heartbreaking on every level, but ESPECIALLY so in light of Obama’s new ROE and his dereliction of duty since being elected.

Reposting what I wrote on the other thread:

Will the same democrats who demanded an investigation of 9 soldier deaths in Afghanistan in 2008..demand an investigation of this as well?

Deadly Afghan battle probed...Family members of slain soldiers suspect Army negligence led to losses

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20091001/NEWS08/910010339/Deadly+Afghan+battle+probed

Something tells me no..but might I suggest that we make calls to these same democrat senators(who likely were only demanding an investigation for political purposes in 2008) and let’s hold them to their own ‘rules’...in ‘Alinsky’ fashion. The names we need to target are U.S. Sen. Daniel K. Akaka and U.S. Rep. Neil Abercrombie, and U.S. Sen. Jim Webb (who is heading up the ‘investigation’ of the 2008 loss). Couple this new incident today with the incident a few weeks ago(where we had 2 soldiers killed due to the new ROE and because they were unable to get air support) and DEMAND ANSWERS!

May God help the families of these brave soldiers in their hour of grief and sorrow. Everyday that Obama fiddles around,is a dereliction of duty. His new ROE are a dereliction of duty imho.

[MaxMax]

Yea, the punk trying to lecture a born leader.

[444Flyer]

You dig through and post what makes you feel comfortable with...

I dig through and post the record. Do you have a problem with what is on the record? You would have to be blind not to notice how Obama is conducting his war in Afghanistan.

I read first hand what the Generals say as in today’s San Diego Union Tribune. It would not fit your agenda.

"Actions speak louder than words" as they 'say', and the actions of Obama's Command over the war have been abomidable. The body count is quickly adding up. (But then again, what do you expect when your taking orders from a Waffler for a CIC!!!)

10,000 more Marines are being deployed from San Diego in a few months to Afghanistan and they know why and support the mission."

I know darn well that they are deploying more Marines from Pendleton! God Bless our Marines as they have had a mountain-sized governor placed on their chests by the Yahoos at the top. Makes me love and respect them all the more! Unfortunately, the CIC's ROE's are tanamount to taking their clips every time they go out on patrol and then saying they may have them back only if king Obama thinks they are Big Boys enough to handle them.

Why don't we review the record there too!? Here is an exchange we had back on Sept. 10th. After you accused anyone on the thread who weren't going along with Obama and McChrystal's incompetance and giving it a thumbs up.

To: SoCalPol

Cut and run? No, this is all about the ROE’s and McChrystal’s lame ass decisions which are leading to our guys getting killed. If you are going to have boots on the ground over there, for heaven’s sake, let them defend themselves against terrorists and do their job. If the Obama Administration wants to ‘win hearts and minds’, have them send over missionaries. If they want to win battles, have them send Marines!

Sorry SoCalPol, but you are WAY off on this one.

51 posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 6:17:47 PM by 444Flyer (May God Bless and protect our Boots on the ground!)

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Here's a comment I made to another FReeper on that thread:

To: randomhero97

I'm a unleash all “H” on the enemy if it saves even one Marine’s life...admittedly...I'm biased.;)

58 posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 6:25:48 PM by 444Flyer (May God Bless and protect our Boots on the ground!)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2336737/posts

I don't believe in 'cut and run'. I DO believe in WINNING if you plan on engaging in a war. In giving our military clear goals and objectives and the trust,permission, ability and 100% BACKUP for those objectives to be achieved. I believe in placing one American Servicemember's life over ALL the lives of the enemy. Not in handholding and catering to the enemy through weak and incompetant ROE's!!

Now, I'm going to ask YOU a question AGAIN.

Sooooo, are you defending and supporting Obama and McChrystal's passive and deadly (to our servicemembers) ROE’s?

[Mr Rogers]

I did a 6 month tour in Afghanistan, and my two oldest kids did tours in Iraq.

Iraq I understand. I supported the fight in Afghanistan until I had been there. Now? I don’t know.

The problem with Afghanistan is the people are so incredibly screwed up by radical Islam that changing things will take a generation, and maybe more. Back in 2007, most of the radicals went to Iraq to fight - now they are ‘back home’ in Pakistan & Afghanistan. And you must carry out the fight in BOTH countries, because the large bulk of the fighters are training in and being supported by Pakistan.

I suspect McCrystal (?) is right, but I don’t think Obama and the Democrats who control Congress will give the support needed - and I don’t want our troops being hung out to die.

[mazda77]

At least Stanley was looking him straight in the eye. Kind of like that Barbara Walters moment when McLame was on the View and she talked to the floor when addressing him. The funniest thing in the world was when BOR called her on it and then made fun of Joy when he was on the show afterwards.

The sorry thing is this is not funny in the least. The Post Turtle was way out of his league on the abortion question from the Pastor and he is not evn in the same universe on issues of military tactics. My opinion is that Stanley is more worried about his stars than he is about the men under his command.

[penelopesire]

“It’s amazing, isn’t it, to find ourselves in some really convoluted way on the “same side” as virulent anti-war people? I never, ever believed I’d think it- let alone say it, either.”

That is the same thng that eventually happened during the Vietnam war...by design. The people who had always supported the vietnam war became anti-war when it became painfully apparent that the leadership in Washington had no intention or strategy to win the war.It’s a very sad morning for America. God Bless our military in their hour of need and loss.

[Lundy_s Lane II]

Yes a typical liberal POV.

If the FBI are sent there to read enemy combatants their rights then the military should get out and let the FBI fight the battles. After all they are just criminals.

The only honorable thing for the Generals to do is to quit or to force the Usurper out of office.