Are We at the Center of the Universe? (new solution to Einstein's field equations may put us there!)

CEH ^ | August 23, 2009

[GodGunsGuts]

August 23, 2009 — An alternative cosmology that doesn’t require dark energy may have the effect of putting the Milky Way near the center of the universe. That’s not the only interpretation, but it is being considered....

[ElectricStrawberry]

The Universe is infinite. Thusly, it has no “center”.....

[sickoflibs]

RE :” Clearly it was His intention that the creation days should be regarded as being normal earth rotation days, and it was not His intention that any longer timeframes should be inferred .”

My point exactly,see:
Why Creationists disown parts of the Bible to promote Creationism as science at post Comet Chemical Is Not the Seed of Life#81

and Creationist Theory of an Evolutionary Appearance of Created Universe at post Comet Chemical Is Not the Seed of Life#64resolves evolution as science with the Bible, but not those creationists demanding proof of their faith.

[CottShop]

lol- demanding proof for hteir faith- Sciencve backs hte bible up without any manipulation contrary to the accusaitons being made agaisnt creationists- it’s only when you start twisting and contorting God’s word that the bible then ‘meshes with’ macroevolution- the convoluted means macroevolutionists go through to make hte bible mesh with hteir brand of macroevolution is just plain silly, and takes God’s word completely out of context, and redefines words- but then again, the desperation to prove the claim that the bible and science (and by science, we’re talkign the religious beleif that hte world is billions of years old, and man evovled from chemicals) can coexist make deceit a common practice

Btw- there are several theories about starlight and redshifts and other such problems in calculating how ‘old’ the light is- as well, the width of hte universe is a HUGE problem for macroevolutionists hwo glibbly dismiss it out of hand by concocting theories which rely on pure assumptions- As well, baraminology agrees with hte bible, but the hypothesis of common descent IGNORES the actual evidnece and goes WAY beyond hte facts by claiming somethign that has no scientific evidence to support- and God clearly said that HE breathed life into the NOSTRILS of man, and htat HE ‘looked around’ the garden for a suitable mate for Adam and found NONE, which is why He again had ot CREATE Woman- and htat htere was no death of the spirit BEFORE the fall of man (which would have been impossible, naturally speaking, IF man went htrough billions of years of evolution evolving from chemicals, or even evolving from ‘lower species’) but macroevos ingore this and glibbly dismiss is by taking God’s word out of context, redefining words, and claiming man still evolved so no- I’m afraid it’s not hte creationsits and ID scinetists who are twisting God’s word-

[sickoflibs]

RE :”Btw- there are several theories about starlight and redshifts and other such problems in calculating how ‘old’ the light is- as well, the width of hte universe is a HUGE problem for macroevolutionists hwo glibbly dismiss it out of hand by concocting theories which rely on pure assumptions- “

Are you claiming the stars are only a few light years away, or that the speed of light can be assumed to dynamically change to support the different sections of Genesis??? Which one of the alternative assumptions is made up by Darwinists (speed of light, or distance to stars) ?

BTW: How did Kangaroos get from Noah's Ark to Australia after the flood? Swim???

[CottShop]

l list the catholic tradition first and then what the Bible has to say about the matter.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Forbidding the priesthood to marry.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

1) It is devilish to forbid God’s people to marry when He has given marriage to be received with thanksgiving.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

2) Peter was married (remember the pope is supposedly continuing the apostolic line through Peter).

Matthew
8:14 And when Jesus was come into Peter’s house, he saw his wife’s mother laid, and sick of a fever.

Mark
1:30 But Simon’s wife’s mother lay sick of a fever, and anon they tell him of her.

Luke
4:38 And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon’s house. And Simon’s wife’s mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.

3) Paul, a great apostle, remained single; however he made it very clear that he could marry if he wanted to.

1 Corinthians
9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary never had other children after the Lord Jesus. A perpetual virgin.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary and Joseph indeed had children. They were the Lord’s half brothers and sisters for their father was Joseph and mother was Mary.

Matthew
13:55 Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the queen of heaven.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Worshipping the queen of heaven (which is not the Mary of the Bible) is worshipping another god and it provokes the Lord to anger.

Jeremiah
7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?

7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the mother of God.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary is the mother of the earthly Jesus, not God. Jesus pre- existed from everlasting as God (see John 1:1). When He came to redeem mankind, He laid aside His glory and was made like unto sinful man so that He could take our punishment (Hebrew 2:9). God has no mother. He has lived from everlasting which means He had no beginning.

Isaiah
43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. [If Mary gave birth to God, she’d be God.]

Psalm 93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.

Micah
5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler [Jesus] in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Philippians
2:6 Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Pope called Holy Father.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - The term Holy Father is only found one time in the entire Bible. It was when Jesus prayed before He and His disciples went to the garden of Gethsemane. He referred to God the Father as Holy Father. It is blasphemy to call a man by God’s name

John
17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Purgatory, nuns, popes.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - None of these is mentioned in the Bible. It is a sin to add to the Bible.

Proverbs
30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar

The pope is a man who takes upon himself honor which belongs to no human being. Even the very name by which he allows himself to be called (Holy Father) is highly presumptuous and blasphemous (see above).

One does not need the pope to determine what God’s will is. The Bible says that God has given the Holy Ghost to each believer and that He (the Holy Ghost) guides and leads us into all truth. All a believer needs is the Bible and the Holy Ghost to know the will of the Lord. Popery has been treacherous, but worse, each pope has been the blind leading the blind. Jesus said that both will fall into the ditch. Catholics, come out of this system that cannot save and know Jesus for youself, intimate and up-close.

NOTE: Purgatory is supposedly a place where a person is purified of sins—even popes supposedly go there. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the one that purifies us of our sins. Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.... When a person dies their eternal home is sealed—heaven or hell—no in between. Hebrews 9:27 ...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Venerating/worshipping images. Pope bows to statues of Mary, people worship the eucharist and have statues/candles in their homes and churches.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - It is idolatry to venerate images. We are not even supposed to make them.

Exodus
20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God...

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/cath.htm

[CottShop]

[[BTW: How did Kangaroos get from Noah’s Ark to Australia after the flood? Swim???]]

BTW- how did the animals 2x2 get to the ark in the first place? Is God not big enough to disperse supernaturally as well as bring in supernaturally? The Same God who CREATED man out of hte dust of hte earth and created the universe and all that’s in it isn’t big enough that He couldn’t superceed nature after the creation?- God ‘could have’ done htings in a 1000 different ways had He CHOSEN to, but He chose to work htrough Noah for certain issues, but that did NOT mean that God simply ‘let nature’ ‘take it’s own course’ without His intervention at all times- but of course the naturalist, ignoring hte omniscience and omnipotent nature of God will insist everythign had to be purely natural after the creation, and will build their ‘arguments’ based o nthis premise- and iwll come up with all manner of quesitons that attempt to bind the hands of our Omnipotent God- thinking htey have somehow cornered their opposition- they have not- there is much we don’t know, but this in no way refutes anything biblical- but we CAN learn much htrough the study of scinece concenring how God worked when He worked with nature, and how He worked when He worked above nature

you’ll find answers to your ‘questions’ on several good sites- however- here’s a start, and remember- God is NOT bound by naturalism, BUT it very well could be that He infact DID allow nature to run it’s course, and that there may very well be a possible natural answer to oyur ‘quesitons after all- but if not,, this still wouldn;’t refute the bible, it would simply mean we haven’t foudn an answer yet- BUT there ARE MANY MANY answers that ARE indeed answered by science which agree with hte bible- so many infact, that discounting htem all and glomming onto scant few annomylies in an attempt ot ‘refute’ the bible, when we don’t get a difinitive answer, is just plain silly- there’s enough actual evidence to support hte bible and to make thta leap of faith and put your trust in God for those areas that can’t be immediately explained- but htere are few indeed- God’s fingerprints are ALL OVER nature- glomming onto partial fingerprints hwen so many complete fingerprints are available, is nothign short of ‘looking for an excuse to reject God’- but whatever:

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/kangaroo.html

John Woomorappe also covers these issues as well, and does a very good job- but htose determiend NOT to believe will do so regardless of whether htere are reasoanble explainations or not- so whatever-

[[Are you claiming the stars are only a few light years away, or that the speed of light can be assumed to dynamically change]]

I am sayign htere ARE hteories about htis, as well as about curved universe, and the fact that light is slowing down, and other theories as well - some of which DO have sicnetific supoport- I also do NOT rule out the possibility that yes- God ‘could have’ created things to ‘look old’ IF He so wished, but I personally beleive there is enough scientific evidence to support some of hte theories which explain starlight being young but ‘appearing’ old due ot various variables such as curved universe, light slowing down- light not being constant as ASSUMED by old earth advocates e5tc etc etc

[sickoflibs]

Here's a scientific debate with CottShop on creationism. As Godguns says, creationists always kick their opponents butts. Here is CottShop summarized points (you can see why at link) with my responses , link below as reference:

1) God did anything (THAT we ask him questions about )supernaturally so we creationists don't have to explain how anything happened (resp: then why ID or scientific creationism at all??)

2) Naturalists will insist that things happened 'naturally' and ask us for natural explanations when God can make anything happen supernaturally (resp: I asked him for ANY explanation, NOT a natural explanation. So science is NOT even about explanations anymore ??)

3) Science can learn how God worked (resp : Great, explain how God worked then. How did he get the kangaroo to Austrialia?? How did he get animals to and from the Ark? How did he create Man?)

4) I can find answers to my questions at creationists sites and books (resp: cottshop doesn't think it is even worth his time to read and understand creationist websites, but insists we are scared to have it taught in schools as science, this is typical of most creationists)

5) The young universe looks old but is really young because Light is slowing down or something else he hasnt thought of. The idea of a fixed speed of light was made up by by old earth advocates (LOL, Darwinists strike again! has light been observed to slow down or speed up over time, or is this just someing the creator does we we are not looking?)

Reference:

cottshop provides perfect example of creationist alternative#306

[Wacka]

Boy, are you hateful to Catholics.

[CottShop]

[[1) God did anything (THAT we ask him questions about )supernaturally so we creationists don’t have to explain how anything happened (resp: then why ID or scientific creationism at all??)]]

And htis is different from the macroevolutionist ‘explaination ‘ that ‘we just haven’t foudn hte answer yet how (despite 150 years of trying)- Besides, I didn’t say there wasn’t an explanation- I said it hasn’t been explained but we can’t rule out hte possibility that it can’t be explained (And I don’t have to fall back on the ‘naturalists cop-out’ that ‘we just haven’t foudn hte answer yet, but it’s ‘out htere’ lol)

[[2) Naturalists will insist that things happened ‘naturally’ and ask us for natural explanations when God can make anything happen supernaturally]]

He most certainly can- but you of course rule out supernatural a priori- but whatever

[[So science is NOT even about explanations anymore ??)]]

Sure it is- and htere’s PLENTY that science HAS answered- but you sillily think that because soem scant few answers haven’t been procured yet, that this automatically refutes all the other evidneces that DO show answers which coioncide with God’s word?- Your viewpoint isn;’t science- but bais- but whatever- ignore all the other areas that ARE answered- it’s youre future

[[3) Science can learn how God worked (resp : Great, explain how God worked then.]]

ID DOES show how- go ye and seek (not that you’re interested, ALL you’re itnertested in is arguign till blue in the face)

[[(resp: cottshop doesn’t think it is even worth his time to read and understand creationist websites, but insists we are scared to have it taught in schools as science, this is typical of most creationists)]]

You got that right- I aint interested in your silyl little ‘questions’ which you’ll siomply promptly dismiss or ignore without reason, and move right on to some equally silly followup question- search it out yourself IF you truly are itnerested- but I’ve seen your kind many times- you’re NOT itnerested in anyhtign but arguing

IF you ever HONESTLY want answers- and are willign ot accept the answers and not simpyl dismiss everythign out of hand for the sake of arguing, then lemme know- till then- play your little ‘quesiton’ game somewhere else- I aint itnerested- your ‘questions’ have been answered time and time again on FR by both myself and others- YOU IGNORE them- then typically wait a month or more- then pretend liek you’re askign again all over again for hte first time- Sorry- not buying your line of BS- I KNOW you’ve seen the threads in which your ‘quesitons’ were answered before because I remember both myself and others respondign to your ‘questions’ many times- you STILL feign ignorance, and pretend like you’ve got Christians ‘cornered’ when the fact is, there are myriad answers provided here and elsewhere-

Have a ncie evening!

[CottShop]

Don’t worry Wacka- I love everyone- what I can’t stand however is deceit- and if hte facts hurt yor feelings, well, too bad

[sickoflibs]

RE :” You got that right- I aint interested in your silyl little ‘questions’ “

Yep, no answers. No theories, nothing. Exactly the alternative you claim that everyone is censoring in schools. “They are scared to let us teach our alternatives” you post over and over, But you answer over and over, you have none.

Is your keyboard broken or are you typing in tongues ? Or is this like the Tower of Babbel ? All your replies have text like :(copied here direct from last reply 309)

“we just haven’t foudn hte answer yet, but it’s ‘out htere’ lol”
and like “ALL you’re itnertested in is arguign “

You would be surprised what a 6th grade education would do, I know , you dropped out of school at 10 to avoid evolution. How about a christian school?

[CottShop]

[[Yep, no answers. No theories, nothing.]]

You qwere given the answers and given the theories- what you do with them I could really care less- IF I thought you were even an iota interested, instead of disingenuous I’d put more effort into REANSWERING your cosntant quesitons- but it’s apparent you aren’t truly interested

[[But you answer over and over, you have none.]]

Silly little rabbit- no matter how many times you repeat this, the FACTS speak clearly that it’s a lie- your ‘questions’ have been repeatedly answered on FR time and time again

[[You would be surprised what a 6th grade education would do, I know ]]

That is apparent- running out of arguments eh? Par for the course with you folks- when you get refuted, just turn on the attack mode- you’ll find your answers to tyour ‘quesitons’ on many fine sites as well as on FR in those htreads you ran from previously- knock yourself out- or don’t- I don’t care- it’s your eternity

[CottShop]

knock yerself out liberal- plenty6 of info provided here- seeings how you’re too lazy to find the answers to your ‘questions’ by yer self (Not that you’;re even interested- but meh- don’t claim again that noone has answers for you when you’re being spoon fed answers to your hearts content shoudl you CHOOSE to educate yourself beyond 6’th-grade level)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=active&num=30&newwindow=1&q=how+kangaroos+got+to+australia+after+flood&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

[CottShop]

Typical Atheist tactics are to try to use the non sequitur as often as they do the ad hominem, and straw man tactics, in order to distract. These and others, such as the throwing tantrums, claiming answered questions remain unanswered, and many more, are what we call red herrings, rabbit trails, or diversionary tactics, because htey know their argument is weak, and the science doesn’t quite support their positions, and htey need to distract others fro mthe issues because their position is indefensible and unreasonable.

[Buck W.]

” If belonging to a denomination is what makes one Christian, then it’s safe to conclude that you think that any one who is NOT a member of one of those denominations is NOT a Christian.

Therefore, by your criteria, someone who is not a member of one of those denominations is not a Christian.”

If all humans are mammals, are all mammals then human?

You must be one of them creation scientists that we hear so much about! What brilliant, Aristotle-like logical deduction capabilities you have!

I say that as a Christian, cultmom.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

LOL!

[Wacka]

Typical Atheist crevo tactics are to try to use the non sequitur as often as they do the ad hominem, and straw man tactics, in order to distract. These and others, such as the throwing tantrums, claiming answered questions remain unanswered, and many more, are what we call red herrings, rabbit trails, or diversionary tactics, because htey know their argument is weak, and the science doesn’t quite support their positions, and htey need to distract others fro mthe issues because their position is indefensible and unreasonable.

Fixed it for you

[CottShop]

Denying the truth isn’t ‘fixing’ anythign for yourself Wacka- but nice try

[DallasMike]

I apologize for not answering your questions — we had a family tragedy last week.

Blessing on you all. The love we share for Jesus Christ and the infinite love he gives to us is far more important than these little “in-the-family” discussions.

[count-your-change]

Sorry to hear of the difficulties.