Hawaiian newspapers don't prove birthplace

WorldNetDaily ^ | July 22, 2009 | Drew Zahn

[RobinMasters]

The announcements of Barack Obama's birth printed by two Hawaii newspapers in 1961 do not provide solid proof of a birth in the Aloha State because of uncertainties over the policies and procedures that apparently were being used at the time.

The Honolulu Star-Bulletin, for example, according to its website, now reprints birth information it receives from Hawaii's Department of Health.

"We don't have an editor who handles birth and marriage announcements; we print what we receive from the Department of Health Vital Statistics System," a Star-Bulletin newsroom operator explained to WND.

The operator said, "This is how we've always done it."

The newspaper's "proof" of birth, therefore, could be based on a state-issued "Certification of Live Birth" which, as WND has reported is insufficient alone, even for some State Department officials, to document the birthplace.

Many people remain unaware a child does not even have to be born in Hawaii to receive a Certification of Live Birth, the very "evidence" the White House has cited in defending its assertion Obama was born in Hawaii.

[Defiant]

So conclusive we don't need to bother with actual documentation for this president like we do with every other person in the universe.

You are adding words that I did not say. Don't do that.

Where were you for the past 18 months? I have been saying he should have to provide his birth certificate from the very beginning of this. I have to gather BCs from 8 year olds for little league teams. You would think the President of the US would have to show his at some point in this process.

I believe there is something he is hiding that is on that BC, maybe a religion, maybe his real father, who knows. But if you are taking odds, the odds that he was born in Hawaii is about 100-1. You can concoct scenarios that he was born in Kenya, or Canada, and that the newspaper announcement was called in, that the mom left Hawaii and college, with a very expensive flight to the mainland, and the on to some foreign country, late in the pregnancy, that they made a long distance international call to a newspaper to post an announcement just so they could prove, 48 years later, that their newborn son was born in the US.

Show me the newspaper announcement is phony and that changes things. To have concocted an ad would show that there is a need to create a birth in Hawaii. I have seen no information anywhere that says that the newspaper ad is phony, just some speculation that it might be photoshop. In all this time, hasn't anyone gotten the original newspaper from the archives to check if it really was in there?

If the newpaper notice is genuine, the odds are pretty damn high that he was born in Hawaii. Medved, who I don't like very much, is right about that.

[Defiant]

Until the actual newspaper in which the announcement was printed is examined and analyzed, the announcement cannot be automatically assumed to be genuine. It certainly appears other documents have been forged in the course of this, including COLBs posted on web sites that Obama has endorsed as genuine. There are a lot of people with a lot of resources who have been supporting Obama over the course of his career, and they have been scrubbing information on him all over the place, from the State Legislature, his colleges, his grade school records and so on. I would not blindly accept the birth announcement. It needs to be examined. What I have said is that if it is genuine, then the odds that he was actually born in Hawaii become extremely high.

[Plummz]

The source is the lies Maddy Payne told the dingbat Nordyke lady on the cruise, as related in the Honolulu Advertiser.

Hope this helps.

[Polarik]

I find it hard to believe that people are still talking about this birth announcement as if it actually proved that Obama was born in Hawaii. Here are the questions I have for those who insist it can:

1. EXACTLY, which part of this announcement indicates that Obama was born in Hawaii?

2. EXACTLY, which part of this ad indicates that this announcement was NOT phoned in?

Let me reiterate the fact that birth announcements can and were phoned in. Saying that they only came from Vital Records is patently false.

Secondly, and I know that this won't sit well with the Obama supporters, but the evidence for Obama being born outside of Hawaii is stronger than it is for being born inside, and that Ann Dunham obtained her son's birth certificate several days dater.

I checked with the sales department and classifieds at the Honolulu Advertiser and the Star Bulletin. Call them yourselves if you don't believe me.

Plus, there is a lot more than suspicion about the address listed, as posted elsewhere, that there is no record of Mr & Mrs Barack Obama ever living there, but there is of another family. Also no black man or black child was ever seen there.

But, let's explore an alternative explanation: that the microfiche was altered.

The date of the birth announcements in the Aug 13, 1961 issue of the Sunday Advertiser ran from Sunday, July 30 to Monday, August 7.

The order of the birthdates, from the 1st listing to the 12th, seems to be random, ranging from July 30 to August 6. Since typeface is set from bottom to top, the last listing is actually the first, and from there upwards to the 13 th listing, the order is increasing chronologically from 4, 4, 4, 4 {Obama's}, 5, 5, 5, 5, 6, 7, 7, and the # of ads by day goes from Friday (4), Saturday (4), Sunday (1), and Monday (2).

Why would the Advertiser start its column with the weekend before last, from Friday to Monday, and then randomly from that point onwards?

If every listing came from Vital Records, then you would expect the entire list to be ordered by date or name. But, we know it's not. Maybe the first half came from the same hospital?

 

Those lines have been identified by some as "typeset lines" or ghost lines. The Advertiser listing for Obama has lines on both the top and bottom that continue on into the next column. The Star Bulletin listing does not.

[Beckwith]

Plus, there is a lot more than suspicion about the address listed, as posted elsewhere, that there is no record of Mr & Mrs Barack Obama ever living there, but there is of another family.

There is no evidence that there ever was a Mr & Mrs Barack Obama or that Obama Sr. and Ann Dunham ever lived together under the same roof at any time.

[Iowan]

Thanks for the excellent post, Polarik

Ping.

[BP2]

1. EXACTLY, which part of this (newspaper) announcement indicates that Obama was born in Hawaii?

Ding, Ding, Ding!

Address of residence (like might be submitted to the state via mail) DOES NOT mean Address of Birth,
nor does address of residence denote State/Nation of birth!

     [§338-17.8]  Certificates for children born out of State.  (a)  Upon application of an adult
or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such
adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal
parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared
the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately
preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

     (b)  Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner
that the director shall deem appropriate.  The director of health may also adopt any rules
pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent
applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events
necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

     (c)  The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted
pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]

Section 3 of the Hawaii Constitution. No person shall be deemed to have gained or lost
residence simply because of the person's presence or absence while employed in the service
of the United States, or while engaged in navigation or while a student at any institution
of learning. [Am Const Con 1978 and election Nov 7, 1978] -- As Anna Obama was while
attending Univ. of Washington in 1961-1962 while living in Seattle.

[MHGinTN]

"If the newpaper notice is genuine, the odds are pretty damn high that he was born in Hawaii." That is rather absurd when we know that the state of Hawaii allowed people to obtain Hawaiian certification of birth even if not born there and the parents were not Hawaiians (Sun YAt Sen's Hawaiian issued BC as an example).

You are doing precisely what a the criminal wants you to do, focus upon the exhibit as if because you can see it it MUST be valid, not false information. We are reasonably sure the Obamas never lived at the address listed in the exhibit. That is ignored because you want to believe the lie. We know that the exhibited CoLB on the Internet is not valid for court use because we have the sworn affidavit of a retired FBI documents expert in the Keyes v Bowen case stating exactly that! You want to believe a lie and so does the useful idiot, Medved. So believe it! But stop trying to feed us the same crap you've swallowed that you want to call a baby ruth.

[Polarik]

Both papers are inder the same roof.

[justiceseeker93]

Seems like phoning in of birth announcements by the the newborn's family (or by hospital personnel) has been by far the most common way of placing these announcements in local newspapers for as long as I know of. In the case of the Honolulu papers, it could well have been that some of the announcements were from the state agency and others from private sources.

What is your interpretation of the additional horizontal lines running across the top and bottom of the Obama announcement? Is this an indication that the Obama announcement was likely grafted on at a later date?

[PhilDragoo]

So, the coupon for the dry cleaners on the BACK of the birth announcement is actually MORE valuable--got it.

[Polarik]

Oahu Publications, Inc. publishes the Honolulu Star-Bulletin, MidWeek, and the Hawaii Marine. Owned and administered by Black Press Ltd.

http://www.starbulletin.com/about/contact_information.html

[cynwoody]

Both papers are inder the same roof.

"Are" is hardly the relevant verb tense.

According to the Wikipedia:

From 1962 it [the Honolulu Star-Bulletin] was owned by a local group of investors led by Elizabeth P. Farrington and operated under a joint operating agreement with the Honolulu Advertiser that allowed the two papers to use the same printing facilities and sales personnel (the Hawaii Newspaper Agency) while maintaining separate fully competitive editorial staffs and providing Honolulu with two distinct editorial "voices."

In any case, 1962 comes after 1961, the year in question. But even if it did not, we see that the announcement insertions would have been handled separately.

Best to stick with pixel torture ...

[BP2]

Is this an indication that the Obama announcement was likely grafted on at a later date?

In addition to microfiche, newspapers also keep BOUND copies of their prints in the main office. The Smithsonian and/or Library of Congress should have independent archives as well.

REGARDLESS...

Ann was just a little over 18 years of age at the time of Barack Jr's birth. She had only been in Hawaii barely a year -- if she didn't actually leave for Washington state (or elsewhere) in Spring of 1961 before Obama was born.

She probably would NOT have a Hawaiian Drivers License to present -- even if authorities asked for it by mail or in person (which they probably would NOT have) to verify the address of residence on the newspaper ads of 6085 Kalanianaole.

Regarding Ann having a form of ID (Hawaiian Driver's License) to prove her address of residence to authorities if the baby had ACTUALLY been born in Hawaii ...

It was far too expensive for many residents to own and operate a car, then as it is now, in Hawaii. Ann's parents were a junior escrow officer (mom-Madeline) and a junior furniture salesperson (dad-Stanley), paying for college tuition. The father (Barack Sr) couldn't/wouldn't support the mixed-race child child either. THERE WAS NO REASON FOR ANN TO HAVE A HAWAIIAN DRIVER'S LICENSE THAT WOULD REPORT 6085 Kalanianaole. People take a taxi, bus, bike or walk because the distances are relatively close on the island:

The address, 6085 Kalanianaole, is AT BEST an address of residency, reported by mom or grandmother, and probably via the US Mail. It does NOT denote a location of birth, or a state/nation of birth.

The Hawaiian newspaper ad means NOTHING other than where Ann claimed to have lived -- nothing more.

The ad does NOT prove that Obama is a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.

[Red Steel]

Ping for later review. :-)

[hoosiermama]

RS, see BPs post here. He may be able to answer your other question.

[Fred Nerks]

I know what you mean...but always look on the bright side, the more ‘they’ lie; the more angry we get, the more information we find...’they’ cannot win. ‘They’ are doing us a favour!

[hoosiermama]

Fred, when did St Ann turn eighteen? Her parents would have control in the decision of what to do with the baby in our state until the age of eighteen. Upon that birthday she is emancipated and makes her own decisions.

What are the laws of HI?

Does her eighteen birthday free her from parents decision to put the baby up for adoption, marry SR, or travel out of the country without parental consent?

[Defiant]

What college did Ms. Dunham attend? Where did she meet BH Obama, Sr.? Where was she living in 1961? Do you have any information that she had moved off the island of Hawaii in 1961, and if so, what is it? If she moved, did she move to Kenya? Why, so she could meet BHO, Sr.'s other wives?

It is possible that she was in some foreign country in 1961, but it is most likely that she was in Hawaii. I accept that the COLB is likely a forgery. The question is why. Is it because he was not born there? Or because there is something else embarassing on it?

I have seen no real evidence that he was not born on Hawaii. There is lots of conjecture and speculation that it is possible he wasn't if if if if... but no evidence of any kind that tells us where she was and why and how she got there. We do know she was in HI and Obama Sr. was there to go to school, too, and it seems likely they met there, and probably married there, although that is up in the air.

I still want to see the BC. Anyone who wants to be President should be required to show it.

[MHGinTN]

“Is it because he was not born there? Or because there is something else embarassing on it?” What a disgustingly liberal thing to try and float at FR ... you would allow this affirmative action liar set the Constitution aside on his word that something ‘embarrassing’ is contained on the actual documents of his birth, and disregard the document fraud of him posting a ficticious CoLB to demand you leave him alone.