Posted on 06/14/2009 3:43:56 PM PDT by SilvieWaldorfMD
As a Canadian living in the United States for the past 17 years, I am frequently asked by Americans and Canadians alike to declare one health care system as the better one.
Often I'll avoid answering, regardless of the questioner's nationality. To choose one or the other system usually translates into a heated discussion of each one's merits, pitfalls, and an intense recitation of commonly cited statistical comparisons of the two systems.
Because if the only way we compared the two systems was with statistics, there is a clear victor. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to dispute the fact that Canada spends less money on health care to get better outcomes.
Yet, the debate rages on. Indeed, it has reached a fever pitch since President Barack Obama took office, with Americans either dreading or hoping for the dawn of a single-payer health care system. Opponents of such a system cite Canada as the best example of what not to do, while proponents laud that very same Canadian system as the answer to all of America's health care problems. Frankly, both sides often get things wrong when trotting out Canada to further their respective arguments.
As America comes to grips with the reality that changes are desperately needed within its health care infrastructure, it might prove useful to first debunk some myths about the Canadian system.
Myth: Taxes in Canada are extremely high, mostly because of national health care.
In actuality, taxes are nearly equal on both sides of the border. Overall, Canada's taxes are slightly higher than those in the U.S. However, Canadians are afforded many benefits for their tax dollars, even beyond health care (e.g., tax credits, family allowance, cheaper higher education), so the end result is a wash.
(Excerpt) Read more at denverpost.com ...
Ping.
Shouldn’t this have a barf alert? At least the first meaty paragraph seemed to show it did.
The propaganda war commences.
Kind of like the 1930’s when stooges said that Communism was great and “misunderstood”.
Well, combined local, state and Federal taxes are lower in the USA. Period. For the moment.
Obama’s Socialist healthcare will be extremely expensive with man donors to Democrats making billions. THAT is the primary difference between Canada and the USA. Canada still has a moral compass. Our Democrats have always been lying, cheating, immoral a$$holes that want massive power and riches.
well here’s my thoughts and experiences of national health care from what I have lived though.
3 years for my mother to get an operation to remove her varicose veins and that was years ago now the waiting list is even longer.
from the time my mother went to get checked for cancer from the time to her getting the results.
yes 9 months later, in that time she could have died form cancer
a friend had to wait 6 months to get an operation on his knee and that was classed as a short time
taxes are extremely high to pay for this crap
many of the better Docs and nurses have left the country to go to other countries where the pay is better and the work place is better.
there is no one room or two bed rooms like here in America instead you can have one TV in a room with 10 beds the privacy comes from the curtain when the doc comes round to check you.
one ward with 10 beds has one phone so do not expect a call form a loved one unless you go to a pay phone and phone them
the list is endless and yes that country is the UK so when I hear from those on the left about great national health care is and who have never lived it then I look at them and shake my head in disbelief at their sheer ignorance and lack of brains.
Just because bozo the clown says it is good does not mean it is good and maybe when these cultists or sheep wake up they will realise this.
At least in Canada you get something.
[I can say this with certainty because none of my fam in Alberta has had any issues with health care.]
Here in the States, you get nothing—well, except the bill—, unless you’re an illegal alien or a Congress critter.
Oh, and rumor has it that Canada’s equivalent of our Social Security is actually solvent, but I’ll let fanfan and other Canadian Freepers confirm or deny that last point.
‘It is becoming increasingly more difficult to dispute the fact that Canada spends less money on health care to get better outcomes.”
Huh? FIRST time I’ve ever read an article saying the Canadian health system was good, EVER. Must be a political hack.
As for taxes thats hogwash as well. Perhaps if you compare Canada to New York its the same. Not even close down here in Florida and many other areas.
But...if the criticisms of the Canadian health care system are "myths"....then why are Canadians traveling to the US for treatment at all? In the course of this "debunking" she begs many more questions: Why does Canada lack "high tech medical equipment" for example? What does this say about the Canadian system?
National health care works a whole lot better if you have a ten-times-larger neighbor to the south that you can use as a waiting room.
I have one question for the author: Does she go back to Canada for all of her health care needs?
Fact: Canada's proximity to America and the success of America's research, development, and expertise (all of which costs money that Americans pay for) out of the equation, Canada's system would fail.
When America's healthcare is socialized, the entire world will feel the pain.
And what's with the nonsense about their taxes being only slightly higher than ours? Well hell, I would hope so. We pay for their defense.
“Here in the States, you get nothing—well, except the bill”
What do you expect? Are you currently paying taxes for socialized medicine?
“Oh, and rumor has it that Canada’s equivalent of our Social Security is actually solvent,”
You forgot your /sarc tag. Social security cannot be solvent as long as the older population continues to live longer. Wait, perhaps the socialized medicine takes care of that.
As as an example she says when talking about waiting for health care in Cananda, ...
"However, the wait has nothing to do with money per se, but everything to do with the lack of radiation therapists"There are waiting periods because of lack of practitioners, and there is a lack of practitioners precisely because the government has removed the free market from health care decisions and doctor compensation.
She goes on to argue,
"from a purely statistical standpoint, there are enough doctors in Canada".
Pure rubbish. If there were enough doctors in practice, and if they had the appropriate equipment, there wouldn't be any waits, or more accurately "rationing" (a term she avoids at all cost) of health care in Canada.
Lastly, it's disingenuous to talk about "average after-tax income" when comparing taxes in US vs. taxes in CA. There's a far greater percentage of Americans paying NO income tax, compared to the percentage of Canadians paying more income tax. Without acknowledging that central point, you haven't much legitimacy upon which to make your other arguments.
If the myth about long waits for care was only myth and waits were reasonable to see a specialist, why in the hell did aunt Betty have to wait over a year for a knee replacement?
LOL
Thanks for the pings.
I don’t know about getting something for our health care dollar. If that was the case, I’d have had a new knee last year.
I don’t know if CPP is solvent, but I’d be inclined to doubt it.
And what about Canadians who die of preventable diseases on waiting lists, unless they can afford to come to the US for prompt and effective care.
More journalistic garbage.
Congressman Billybob
Have you tried buying private insurance out on the open market, without the benefits of buying through an employer or being "needy" enough to fall under government plans?
You forgot your /sarc tag. Social security cannot be solvent as long as the older population continues to live longer.
No, actually, I didn't.
Social Security here is in trouble largely because the Federals played accounting games with the so-called "trust fund," using excess receipts to fund spending binges and creating deferred tax increases down the line for future generations.
At least Canada's CPP equivalent invests in more than just effectively worthless U.S. Government IOUs. Plus, the tax rate is lower: 4.95 percent of the employee's wages up to CAD 43,700 (USD 39,070 at present exchange rates) vs. 6.20 percent of the employee's wages up to USD 106,800 (CAD 119,455 at present exchange rates) under Social Security, and that's before any increases by the Obama administration and the Democrat-controlled Congress. Oh, and the retirement age is lower: 60/65 in Canada vs. 62/67 here.
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