Posted on 05/20/2009 1:55:14 PM PDT by lizol
Der Spiegel - other nations helped Germany in Holocaust
20th May 2009
Poland, among other countries helped Hitler mastermind the mass murders, the German weekly says
The Der Spiegel weekly claims that Germany would not have been able to prosecute its WWII mass-murder campaign against the Jews on its own and the country required the cooperation of other nations, including Poland.
The magazine's front-page story, entitled "Partners. European associates in murdering Jews," cites the case of John Demjaniuk, a former Ukrainian SS-officer, who is currently awaiting trial in Munich, in its bid to prove that without the support of citizens from occupied states the extermination of European Jews would not have been possible.
"Obviously, only Hitler and his associates or the Wehrmacht, were able to stop the Holocaust. This, however, does not weaken the argument that without foreign allies, thousands if not millions of the six million Jews killed would have been saved," the Der Spiegel article reads.
In addition, the weekly claims that while the French, Dutch and Belgians could not have really known what was happening to the Jews, Poles were well aware of the fate that awaited them in concentration camps. Historians and experts from Poland and Germany have undermined the weekly's claims, saying it has made a number of misinterpretations.
I don’t know how old you are but fundamentalist Christians have been supporting Israel a lot longer than 10 years. How could they not? They see it as the fulfillment of biblical prophecy. I’d say they supported it since at least 1948. British fundamentalists supported it a lot longer than that. Remember Lord Balfour? Check the wiki entry on Zionism. There is a section on Christian support for Israel.
For that matter President Rosevelt also helped. Hitler send a shipload of Jews to the U.S. and Rosevelt and the Democrats would not let them in. But yet the Jews worship the Democrat Party.
I accept your explanation. The author wasn’t a general. I do recall now, without digging the book out, that they withdrew through Norway. The book didn’t have a great focus on the strategic level and whether or not they really wanted to go.
The Germans who withdrew weren’t destroyed. I think they left in pretty much good order. In a war that claimed millions and chewed up whole divisions in days the loss of Finland didn’t cost them much in terms of casualties. Loss of a strategic mineral asset wouldn’t have been a good thing but all of your points about nickel were new and interesting to me.
You would probably have to lay the unit diaries down side by side to get an idea of what really happened. My anchor point for judging this is the Das Reich at Normandy.
When comparing the French and German stories about the effectiveness of the resistance in delaying the 2nd SS Panzer Das Reich divisions arrival at the Normandy beach head you’ll find quite a difference in the two sides understanding of the events. The Germans report trivial losses and delays caused by the French while complaining about allied air attacks and mechanical breakdowns. The French believe (or claim) they really whupped the SS. They got Oradour-Sur-Glane for their trouble.
That’s not to say that the Finns weren’t great soldiers. I just think they showed most of their military prowess in fighting against the Russians. I wouldn’t compare what they did to the Russians and against the Germans in anything like equal terms.
Perhaps, I don't know the NATO politics. And I think NATO has outlived it's usefulness anyway. The underlying Der Spiegel article is here, the essential pitch being OK, we came up with the idea, but plenty of individuals both actively participated or looked the other way. Which is true, even in Poland, but to blame nations, and the lead paragraph in the article states But the collusion of other European countries in the Holocaust has received surprisingly little attention until recently. is another thing. Perhaps if Hitler hadn't planned on enslaving Poles, a collaborationist government would have been formed, but it wasn't, so the charge falls short. IMO it's just a case of sure, we did it, but others did too. BTW, I don't think of them as a nation, but along with Poland, Denmark and Finland, I should have included the Vatican as not collaborationist regiems. And shame on the Brits for barring immigration to the Jewish homeland, their obligation under their League of Nations Mandate. Not a proud time for Europe, but it's not right to deflect blame.
“I don’t recall that they actually managed to recruit enough of any to form an entire division “
Not only did the French form an entire division, Hitler picked the French SS division to protect his Berlin Bunker against the final attack by the Soviets.
Unlike how the French fought to defend France, these French soldier died valiently.
THANK YOU for your excellant, articulate post. You obviously are very knowlegeable in this area of history.
I don’t think we are really in disagreement, we are probably more in agreement about these issues.
I take back the “10 years”, but I would say the open, direct and very vocal support has not been THAt long in the Christian community. that is not to say that there were not important Christians over the years who publically supported Jews.
I viewed this focus on the “accomplices” as NOT shifting the blame at all , but bringing to light , yes again, that it is simplistic to ignore the world wide anti semitism that existed during this era.
If we JUST look at the Germans ( who with their shame had not dared to write such an article until now ) we avoid our human “complicity” in evil roaming through the world.
It really goes to the core of Christianity that “none of us are without sin” and that Jesus came to ‘save us from our inherent sinfullness” and to present a victory over ALL evil.
I appreciate your reasoned and intelligent response to my post.
The article, interestingly enough, brings forth the whole discussion of the Jewish Question...which is now painfully at the heart (again) of the Israeli situation. So in a way, with this article, the Germans perhaps are calling all of the world to focus again that the globe is ignoring Israel’s plight.
You could be right, and I can't disagree with anything you said. I focused on collusion of other European countries, but it's a popular magazine, and I suspect the intent of the article is to stir up interest in the upcoming trial
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