Knights Templar hid the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican

Times Online ^ | 04/05/2009 | Richard Owen

[BuckeyeTexan]

Medieval knights hid and secretly venerated The Holy Shroud of Turin for more than 100 years after the Crusades, the Vatican said today in an announcement that appeared to solve the mystery of the relic’s missing years.

The Knights Templar, an order which was suppressed and disbanded for alleged heresy, took care of the linen cloth, which bears the image of a man with a beard, long hair and the wounds of crucifixion, according to Vatican researchers.

The Shroud, which is kept in the royal chapel of Turin Cathedral, has long been revered as the shroud in which Jesus was buried, although the image only appeared clearly in 1898 when a photographer developed a negative.

Barbara Frale, a researcher in the Vatican Secret Archives, said the Shroud had disappeared in the sack of Constantinople in 1204 during the Fourth Crusade, and did not surface again until the middle of the fourteenth century. Writing in L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, Dr Frale said its fate in those years had always puzzled historians.

However her study of the trial of the Knights Templar had brought to light a document in which Arnaut Sabbatier, a young Frenchman who entered the order in 1287, testified that as part of his initiation he was taken to “a secret place to which only the brothers of the Temple had access”. There he was shown “a long linen cloth on which was impressed the figure of a man” and instructed to venerate the image by kissing its feet three times.

[BroJoeK]

"You mean "from ~33 to 1204"? In Constantinople in the care of the Eastern Church? "

I note your question.

Constantine's Mother St. Helena

Constantinople was founded by the Roman Emperor Constantine, beginning around 324 AD. In 325 AD Constantine sent his mother, Helena to Jerusalem where she found and returned with many relics, including the true cross, some nails and a tunic which was sent to Trier, and is still there.

Though several other relics are mentioned in these accounts, the shroud of Turin is not one of them.

[NYer]

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[Swordmaker]

Where was the shroud from 1-1204?

According to other documentation, history, and legend, the Shroud was taken in about 35 AD—after Jesus resurrection—by Thaddeus to King Abgar of Edessa to cure him of a skin affliction. It remained revered there as the Image of Edessa (a facial image only as the cloth was displayed, folded in a frame) until the city was taken by Iconoclastic Persians in the 4th Century. The cloth was walled up in the "Archway of Vaults" to protect it from destruction by the non-believers. It was left there, lost, until the 6th Century when it was found in the immured in a hidden vault in the City Gate when the gates were being repaired about 19 years after being damaged a flood in 525. As the Image of Edessa—the Holy Mandylion— it was brought to Constantinople to the Hagia Sophia on August 15, 944, as attested to by the Sermon of Gregory Referendarius, the Arch Deacon of the Hagia Sophia.

[Desdemona]

Ahh. I knew I had seen more to the story somewhere. Since Constantinople didn’t rise for a few hundred years after the Crucifixion, it didn’t make any sense for it to have gone straight there. Thanks.

[nufsed]

Thank you. 57 was also informative.

[BroJoeK]

"You mean "from ~33 to 1204"? In Constantinople in the care of the Eastern Church? "

I note your question.

Constantine's Mother St. Helena

Constantinople was founded by the Roman Emperor Constantine, beginning around 324 AD. In 325 AD Constantine sent his mother, Helena to Jerusalem where she found and returned with many relics, including the true cross, some nails and a tunic which was sent to Trier, and is still there.

Though several other relics are mentioned in these accounts, the shroud of Turin is not one of them.

[tiki]

I saw a program where one of the scientists who claimed it was fake through the carbon dating was later convinced to study more evidence and while he wouldn’t say that the shroud is genuine, he did admit that the carbon dating was done on the patch and he documented it right before he died.

[Swordmaker]

Think that the king will kill hundreds of bankers?

Think that Phillip the Fair was hard pressed for money, having expended his royal treasury on wars, and was desperate for cash. The Knights Templar WERE bankers with whom one could place cash and valuables and be assured of their safety. In addition, cash deposited in France, could be withdrawn in Italy, when the Knights in Italy were presented with a letter from the French Knights. The Knights had LOTS of valuables. King Phillip wanted it. He got it.

[bert]

So now we know. The pope ordered the king of France to extrminated the Templars for their money and the shroud

[NYer]

I do believe that a “Papal Apology” is in order.

I has already been done.

Apology by JPII for past sins of Catholic Church .

[Swordmaker]

I was being facetious.

I know, but thought if deserved a response for those who don't know.

Thanks for the opportunity.

[patton]

“it was brought to Constantinople to the Hagia Sophia on August 15, 944, as attested to by the Sermon of Gregory Referendarius, the Arch Deacon of the Hagia Sophia.”

How old IS that church?

[GLDNGUN]

6 in my time zone.

Unless we know what time zone you are in, how does that help us?

[tiki]

Then, Obama told the bankers, “I am the only thing between you and the pitchforks” I hadn't heard this quote from 0bama before but just the other day we were at a rate hike meeting before the Public Services board and one of the lawyer type guys was telling us how they were looking at structuring the rate so that heavy users and business paid more and when we asked how they could justify that anti-business, anti-wealth stance his example was that if 10 big businesses were angry it was a lot less scary than 450K people coming at you with pitchforks. I guess he has the talking points.

[Kansas58]

Well, thanks for the info. It is good to know.
However, it is not fair to lump the Templars in with “other break away Christian groups”

The Templars were not perfect, but they were in Union with Rome and certainly were not heretics, as claimed by the King of France.

There are groups of self proclaimed “Templar survivors” who, apparently, do not think the apology went far enough.

[patton]

Nevermind -

“The current building was originally constructed as a church between A.D. 532 and 537 on the orders of the Byzantine Emperor Justinian, and was in fact the third Church of the Holy Wisdom to occupy the site (the previous two had both been destroyed by riots). It was designed by two architects, Isidore of Miletus and Anthemius of Tralles. “

[Kansas58]

Actually, the Pope was rather weak at the time.
The King of France did as he pleased, and the Pope could not stop him.

[Swordmaker]

How old IS that church?

Pretty old.

"The current building was originally constructed as a church between A.D. 532 and 537 on the orders of the Byzantine Emperor Justinian, and was in fact the third Church of the Holy Wisdom to occupy the site (the previous two had both been destroyed by riots). . . The first church of Hagia Sophia was inaugurated by Constantius II on 15 February 360."

[JohnBovenmyer]

The Mandylion, bearing the Image of Edessa, arrived in Constantinople 15th August 944 (Julian dating I presume) and its arrival was celebrated by a sermon from the Archdeacon of Hagia Sophia, which has recently be rediscovered (as a copy dating from the eleventh century and translated. Prior to that it had been in Edessa. Check out the Wiki for more on its past prior to that. If the carbon dating issue can be overcome then it only takes a small leap of faith - smaller with this new information - to say the current Shroud is the same as the known historical icon, the Mandylion. To associate that with the burial cloth of a resurrected Christ requires a larger leap of faith, but much the same one required to really be Christian.

[patton]

Missed 76, didja? ;)